Training for Concealed Carry...

Zebulon

Zebulon

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Curious phone conversation today. I made a call to a Holster builder today to place an order. He asked what I consider very good questions...not just "what is your credit card number?". Before the conversation was over, I was seriously challenged to obtain some serious training before I put my gun on. I live in Wisconsin where CC is only a year old. Along with that advice was a warning to pay very good attention to who I listened to, and to try to discern the difference between the wanabees and serious folks who realize the potential liability of wearing a gun. All good stuff. All this, to ask the question....How many of you have actually pursued professional training? Those who haven't probably won't respond....money, age, health, opportunity, skills already acquired, etc would affect those choices, but in a perfect world, we could all go "somewhere" and learn, but realistically, how many have? Just trying to get it right....Thanks....Zebulon
 
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This might be out in left field, but I wouldn't hold off on buying a holster. Would think that it would be a critical part of the hardware required for training. How would you practice drawing? I plan on ordering a holster soon for my newly acquired CCW, and will look into additional training once I receive it.
 
No novalty...you make perfect sense. I thought it odd that a guy who makes a nice living making leather would position himself firmly in recommending "real" training and the importance of it up front rather than just taking my order (which he was certainly willing to do) :) As I thought about it, I just began to wonder how many of the community, apart from LE/Military actually bother to get training....
 
I for one will admit not having enough trigger time. Am planning on taking another course next year after I get a holster and more durable belt. Can go out to the range and plink at cans and paper targets a bunch, but would like additional training where instructors offer a course with different barriers and can practice more stress induced situations.

If I were in the position of the holster manufacturer, I would probably just do my best to steer the potential buyer to the holster that may fit the application best--and let them decide from there.
 
Stress, Time Induced,
Screaming at you,,
LOW LIGHT,
Movement,
Multiple Targets (threats),

REAL THREATS MAY SHOOT BACK TOO!!!!!

ALL YOUR ROUNDS FIRED HAVE ATTORNEYS ATTACHED TO THEM ALSO!!!!!
 
Ironically, instructors often take courses from each other, and get much more training of all kinds than usual. Also, competitors get a lot more practice than is typical.

I get frustrated with people who say they don't want to take the NRA Personal Protection courses or come to an IDPA match "because they took the state mandated course and that's all they need."
Some people apparently carry a pistol as a magic talisman to ward off evil, and heaven help them if they actually have to use it as a weapon in self defense.
 
Holster Maker has made a good point. Maybe the best thing I get from training is improved ability to recognize a threat, and to avoid those situations. Any handgun defense program that leaves out awareness is incomplete. Self defense is much more than marksmanship. Since I don't wind up in jackpots or hotspots regularly, training sessions keep me focused. Welcome to the world of responsible handgunning.
 
My LGD will tell you stories about people coming in to buy a gun without the slightest idea how it works. And to add insult to injury, the only instruction they will ever receive is the few minutes spent with the dealer. The gun will be loaded and carried, or stored at home, without ever being fired. Ignorance can be overcome by education, stupid is forever.
 
Zeb ... I had the good fortune of taking two consecutive defensive handgun courses at Thunder Ranch back in the TR Texas days. The skills and knowledge I acquired still resonate to this day. That was my "formal" training, which has been augmented by years of practice and continuing to educate myself in numerous ways. I'm not LEO or Military, just a regular civilian, but I was schooled early on that firearms are not toys, nor is carrying a firearm an endeavor to be taken lightly. If a person has the financial means to take formalized training, he/she should not think twice. There are various schools across the country that offer quality firearms training, from beginner to advanced, all of which should be researched carefully to find what program is best suited for an individual's budget and needs. That said, no matter how much shooting school experience one gets, it is up to that person to consistently practice/train and continue to be an adult learner.
 
You got some very sage advise. Very few people outside of law enforcement have any real idea of what is in store for them if they ever have to use that gun. There are a lot of phony tough and crazy brave out there who believe just because they carry and took the minimum CCW course they know what they're doing. I see a lot of them at local gun shows and dealers, pretty scary sometimes.
 
Lots of books and people I could reccommend,

But I would start with the book 'In The Gravest Extreme' by Massad F. Ayoob. This book is not a 'how to' book, but rather a when to and when not to and what to do after. Next, I would try train with him.

Lots of fine instructors out there. John Farnam, and wife Vicky, Clint Smith, Gunsite has great instructors. Others that come to mind, Evan Marshall, Jim Higginbotham, Tom Givins, Dave Spaulding, Ed Lovette, Brian A. Felter, and Keith Jones.

The NRA has some great basic courses. Lots of help out there, all you have to do is ask.

All those I mention I know personally and have trained with.

But first Get Ayoob's book:). Read it, highlite it , and read it again.
 
Hi, I would simply like to suggest that if you plan to ccw the weapon of course find a comfortable holster and practice wearing the holster in the same place every time. Do not simply place a small firearm in your pocket amongst loose change, keys , receipts etc. In addition if it is a leather inside the wasteband holster break it in and do not be embarassed to practice drawing your weapon in a defensive crouched or even modified weaver stance in front of a mirror. I have not been inside a training academy in a long time but many have a full length mirror in the rec. room to practice your draw, proficiency, and stance. Be prepared. I see many competition shooters criticize the weaver stance, although an isosolies stance is great for competition a modified weaver stance is a great defensive stance. I am right handed and the object would be in close quarters to keep your right hip carried weapon farthest away from the threat and you left hand extended out to keep the threat away from you and your weapon. Another good tactic to is to practice the draw and go right into a slightly crouched position as can be seen in some old FBI B&W training films. Lastly, depending on your weapon you must learn to fire and cycle your weapon with your weak hand in case you primary method of fire has been disabled. Of course its up to you to investigate how to chamber rounds weak or single handed. It might take some explaining. Again, dont be afraid to practice in front of a mirror over and over if you are serious about being prepared. oh your question. Honestly its hard to tell who has actually had practical training.As one of the the comments stated above i feel very few people are seriously qualifed to take on the responsibility i wish a more extensive course would be required. Being able to hit a 3" group at 10 yards might not always cut the mustared. Reading books and instruction are a great place to gain knowledge but you have to put those theories into action and practice because when it comes down to it you wont have time to reference those lessons in your head. They must become second nature.
GL and have fun
Dave
 
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Good topic here, and I will add my 2 cents.
As an Instructor in Wisconsin, I see two groups in my classes. those that will do no more training ever, get their permit and some will carry for a while then give up, then there are those that will continue to train.
I do have people attend class that already have their permit by submitting their hunters safety certificate. ( that's right in Wisconsin if you took hunters safety at any time in your life you can send it in to get your ccw permit). I commend those that seek this training.
I also tell students that we do it backwards and they get their diploma before finishing school. I tell them that although they can now receive their permit they have done no more then finish kindergarten. I also send them home with homework.which includes reading Massads, In the gravest extreme, and Jeff Coppers Principals of Personal Defense among others. I also tell them they need to take the word "practice" out of their vocabulary and replace it with "train", training has a purpose, a goal and they need to push themselves to always do better.
While I know I have no control over what someone does after walking out the door, at least I hope I have pushed as many as possible in the right direction to keep on training.
I also try to get it in their heads that just because you go train with the best trainer there is, if you don't train regularly what they taught you, you have wasted your time and money.
I also let them no about avoidance and the aftermath of what is going to happen after a defense shooting like going to jail and the money it will cost to defend yourself again. I have found if you let people know how it is going to effect their wallets they seem to listen.
Training for concealed carry NEVER ENDS MY FRIEND!
Cracker57
 
Today is the first day I carried my weapon concealed even though I have had my permit since early this year. I got the permit, passed the course, and then realized I needed more than the basic class. I started going to IDPA matches, joined a local pistol club and have made an effort to get out at least once a month (plus IDPA match) to work on my skills. In addition, I have read three books on CCW covering topics from concealing, to equipment, to laws and legal responsibility. Even after all that, I know I still have more to learn and more work on improving my skills.

Today when I carried for the first time, the whole event was completely uneventful, just like it should be. No one knew I was carrying, I had taken the time to get good equipment that fit me well (I had to try different holsters to get to this point and actually three different guns) and I went on our shopping trip just like any other one.

Between reading the books, articles online, and forum post I have slowly starting to develop more situational awareness, noticing things such as exits, picking parking spots, etc. I know I still have a long way to go and it will be a never ending developing skill (both how to avoid situations and how to the use weapon), but I feel I have a responsibility if I am going to carry a weapon to make sure I'm doing it as safely and professionally as possible.

Just my two cents.
 
No not really except in the military and at my club. That's where it counts and that's where you pay really close attention. Now, I go to the range 2-3 times a week. I'm retired. I have lots of trigger time with many firearms one of which I carry on occasion. I'm comfy with them. I carry mainly when I know I am going to stay in NH but I live on the border between NH and MA. There is no reciprocity for LTC's between the 2 states. MA wants 100 bucks per year and that ain't happening. :) Yiogo
 
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I took the training at the Gander Mountain outlet. After 40 years of shooting, I could have probably taught the class. My mentors were all trained officers. But that's not why I went, and went gladly.

Gander Mountain defines their training as 4 hours of classroom, and one hour on the range, and you must expend 30 rounds.

I have always been an avid reader of Massad Ayoob, especially his "Win on the Street, Win in Court" series. Yes, Wisconsin now has a concealed carry provision, but we also have the biggest communist population outside of Moscow.

One police officer told me (and I believe him) that with my past the local newspaper will barbeque me before the investigation is over. If I ever have to squeeze a trigger in anger, I want to be squeaky clean for the paper work.

BTW, our local police chief, Noble Wray, believes in "community policing." That's a polite way to say that you have to ask a gang-banger for permission to arrest him. Me? I'll be in a dungeon...
 
The Tourist.
I think you may have chosen your words wrong "If I ever have to squeeze the trigger in anger" we don't get to shoot people because they make us angry. I believe you meant to say "if I ever have to squeeze the trigger because I feared for life and limb."
It is that easy to get in big trouble with the simply slip of a single word..
 
"Just for Anger"

Your attorney will tell you to pack your bags,

You're going to the Grey Bar Hotel, for a stint.
 
There is WHEN TO SHOOT training and HOW TO SHOOT trainng. HOW to shoot teaches a skill. WHEN to shoot teaches intelligence. HOW is fun shooting at targets and playing. WHEN can be boring and involves sitting in class learning the law. You should spend a lot more time on the WHEN than the HOW.
Putting in trigger time, drawing and firing, etc is not CCW training. Anybody can be taught how to shoot. But shooting doesn't train them for CCW. If you want really good CCW training with the sole intention of protecting yourself then get legal training on WHEN to shoot. HOW to shoot is easy to train. WHEN to shoot is completely different and what CCW classes should concentrate on teaching. If you haven't had really good WHEN to shoot training then you really aren't prepared to CCW. WHEN training is not as fun as HOW training but the WHEN training will protect you a whole lot more than the HOW.
 
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