Training Logbooks do you keep one and would it help in a SD shooting ?

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Whitwabit

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Do you keep a logbook on your training for Conceal Carry ? The number of rounds expended during that train and either a score or written log on what the training was that day where it was, if it was formal who taught the class? What was taught. Number of hours spent.

If you were in a SD shooting do you have records to show your attorney, prosecutor on classes taken and time spent training ?The amount and level of your training is it documented ? Would it help ?

Why I'm asking much of my training is not documented other then range time where I have a receipt on the range time I spent that day and the kind and number of ammo I shot. But nothing on what training if any was done other then just target practice. I shoot on my own property and no way to verify any of my training there during the warmer months other then receipts for ammo I buy .
 
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no, I don't think it would matter in a sd shooting if you shot 1 time in your life or thousands
 
I keep a pretty detailed log of my live fire training. I describe the drill and how I shot it, what distance it was fired at, and what kind of ammo was used. If I do a specific course of fire, like the TX CHL COF I did a few months ago, I'll include those details. I also include notes and comments based on my observations about how I did. I will also take photos of my targets and save them so I can reference back to see how I did.

For example, a typical entry might be something like:

"Target 1, 3yds, 132gr PMC FMJ, 2 rounds frm holster, SHO, 5x"

"Note: rnds inside 9-ring, good dispersal"

I do it more for tracking my own progress than any kind of record of my performance. But the biggest benefit for me is that it helps me stay focused on what I want (or need) to work on. I can't afford to go to the range very often and shooting more than 50 or 60 rounds through my 642 can leave my hand hurting so I try to make the most of the time/rounds that I have. The one downside is that it makes my range sessions longer. A 50-round session will typically take a little over an hour for me because of my record-keeping. It does give me a chance to rest my hand a bit, though.

I don't log my dry fire practice, but I have thought about keeping track of what kind of drills I'm doing or what skill sets I'm practicing.
 
The Armed Citizens Legal Defense Net (360-978-5200) strongly encourages record keeping of all trips to the range and any training you have undergone. The guy who started the Network, Marty Hayes, is an attorney along with a professional wittness for self defense cases. Massad Ayoob, John Farnham, Tom Givens, Denis Tuller, and several others big name trainers and experts in Self Defense are on thier board of directors,,That orginization puts out videos training their members in 8 different things pertaining to self defense, such as dealing with the aftermath, pre attack indicators, when one can use deadly force, and on and on.

In most juristictions your records will be scrutinized very close and would be a bigg asset in your defense, should you be forced into a S D situation. YES YES YES, keep the records. At 67, I don't have the time nor energy to start over, much less spend years in the big house.

The ACLDN will give you a free pampthlet "What everyone should know about Self Defense" if you call and chat with them. NO high pressure sales pitch at all. Of course if you don't have any assets, then the only thing you have to offer is your future.

Not trying to scare anyone but you really need to research the aftermath of a self defense shooting and see for yourself how much it cost. It only cost Zimmerman about 650-750,000. to stay out of jail for life. You shoot the wrong person or the media tries to make an example out of your shoot, you are in BIG trouble.

It appears some posters here needs to read it very badly and need to study up on the cost of defending oneself after the smoke clears STSpeak. There is no such thing as a good shoot. A few might get by, but it really depends on a lot of things. Most don't. Me I like to prepare for the worst and hope and pray for the best.

The ACLDN is a very good network to be a member of. I think it is 85.00 per year and they will pay your lawyer fees up to 250,000 and beyond if needed. It is a terrific program if you are interested. I don't wrk for them, but am just a mamber for several years now. I consider the 85 bucks just like homeowners insurance. I am a member to keep from loosing my home should I be forced into a self defense situation.
 
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Keeping record of classes attended is one thing. Keeping record of all trips to the range is idiotic.

I shoot competitive High Power rifle, competitive 50 yard prone small bore, 25 yard bullseye pistol, and every once in a great while, .22LR silhouette. I hunt both large and small game. I handload and experimentation can be extensive. Although there is some cross between HP rifle and bullseye pistol, you still have to practice each discipline. I fail to see how any of this would have any place in a court of law, except for when the prosecutor would want to paint this firearms enthusiast as a "gun nut".
 
What do the people who use their gun in self-defense but have NO training do? They represent themost common use of handguns by CCW holders or homeowners.

I fail to see how keeping such records can be of any benefit for that purpose. I keep records of the training classes that I have taken, but that is simply to plan my course of training.
 
poppoprr said:
The Armed Citizens Legal Defense Net (360-978-5200) strongly encourages record keeping of all trips to the range and any training you have undergone. The guy who started the Network, Marty Hayes, is an attorney along with a professional wittness for self defense cases. Massad Ayoob, John Farnham, Tom Givens, Denis Tuller, and several others big name trainers and experts in Self Defense are on thier board of directors,,That orginization puts out videos training their members in 8 different things pertaining to self defense, such as dealing with the aftermath, pre attack indicators, when one can use deadly force, and on and on.

In most juristictions your records will be scrutinized very close and would be a bigg asset in your defense, should you be forced into a S D situation. YES YES YES, keep the records. At 67, I don't have the time nor energy to start over, much less spend years in the big house.

The ACLDN will give you a free pampthlet "What everyone should know about Self Defense" if you call and chat with them. NO high pressure sales pitch at all. Of course if you don't have any assets, then the only thing you have to offer is your future.

Not trying to scare anyone but you really need to research the aftermath of a self defense shooting and see for yourself how much it cost. It only cost Zimmerman about 650-750,000. to stay out of jail for life. You shoot the wrong person or the media tries to make an example out of your shoot, you are in BIG trouble.

It appears some posters here needs to read it very badly and need to study up on the cost of defending oneself after the smoke clears STSpeak. There is no such thing as a good shoot. A few might get by, but it really depends on a lot of things. Most don't. Me I like to prepare for the worst and hope and pray for the best.

The ACLDN is a very good network to be a member of. I think it is 85.00 per year and they will pay your lawyer fees up to 250,000 and beyond if needed. It is a terrific program if you are interested. I don't wrk for them, but am just a mamber for several years now. I consider the 85 bucks just like homeowners insurance. I am a member to keep from loosing my home should I be forced into a self defense situation.
Click to expand...

Nice commercial.
 
If you hit your intended target, the legality of the shooting will come into play and once justified then you are good criminally. IF you hit an innocent person then all bets are off... Records may come into play suggesting you are maybe over zealous, paranoid and looking for a fight? Who knows, but something for a lawyer to made a big deal about.
 
Regardless of what some company trying to sell legal defense services claims, I see no value in maintaining a log book.
 
I kept log books for Sky Diving and Scuba Diving, as you needed to show proof of the respective sports' training and activities before participating, but I've never kept records the shooting classes I've attended.
(My God... Going back to the 60s, I'd have several rooms full of records! LMAO :))

That ACLDN blurb is great sales propaganda, but I don't recall anyone's training/shooting records (or lack thereof) ever coming up in various Civilian shooting cases that make the media. LEO cases, like the reserve cop that shot a man, thinking he was using a tazer [shaking head]... Yes, but not any civilian cases.
 
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Massad Ayoob recommends keeping records.

I keep track of range visits and how many rounds are fired through each gun. Sometimes I add notes on what I did if I feel there is some training significance.

Keeping meticulous records will come into play as to your normal state of mind. It will show that you are serious about what you're doing. Will it help convince a jury the shoot was justified? No, but it can speak to your state of mind should the prosecution try to claim you're just out to kill someone. It certainly can't hurt.

A better reason to keep good records is for a future gun sale. It demonstrates to the prospective buyer that you kept good care of the gun. This can raise the value.
 
I'm not real sure keeping records of range practice would help you. If you shoot a lot I could see a prosecutor telling the jury you are a "gun nut" and making you look bad. However formal training should be documented. A few years ago I took Massad Ayoobs two day MAG 20 class. Took copious notes. He advised us to make copies and then mail them to us certified, but not to open them. He said if we were ever in a self defense shooting we could take it unopened to court, show the postmark proving when it was mailed and then present it as evidence of our training.
Mine is still unopened in my safe.
Hope it stays that way.
Jim
 
Rastoff said:
A better reason to keep good records is for a future gun sale. It demonstrates to the prospective buyer that you kept good care of the gun. This can raise the value.
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This is the only reason I keep records of the # of rounds (and ammo mfr) that I shoot on trips to the range. I also put an asterisk by the dates that the gun was cleaned, as they are not automatically cleaned after every range trip.
 
I don't see how keeping a log would help in court. Who decides how much is too much and not enough? If anything, info like that would/could be used against you.
 
Rastoff said:
Massad Ayoob recommends keeping records. .../

.../ No, but it can speak to your state of mind should the prosecution try to claim you're just out to kill someone. It certainly can't hurt.
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An area training records and courses of fire may help is to explain how the assent got hit center of mass five times or got hit center of mass twice and then in the head once. A prosecutor could try to claim you used excessive force and kept firing after the attack had ended. Being able to demonstrate that you were trained to fire until the person went down, or record showing that you practiced failure to stop drills on a regular basis, or that you could put all five rounds from your Model 60 center of mass in about 2 seconds at 5 yards - before the person would go down - could help show that you shot as trained, not due to a malevolent state of mine or with criminal intent.

But that's a big "might" the time and place to disclose the presence of those records is in a confidential conversation with your attorney so that he can review them in the context of the case and decide whether or not they'll help your defense.

It could blow up in your face, if you disclose that you've been practicing once a week honing your skills and a detective or a prosecuting attorney decides that's evidence that you were looking for an opportunity to kill someone.

Collecting and keeping those records gives you an option, but that does not automatically mean using that option is a good idea.

In general, if you are involved in a shoot, let the officers know you were in fear for your life, and that you will fully cooperate, but that you are not in any condition to give a more complete statement at this time. They will probably put you in the back of a patrol car while they interview the witnesses at the scene, and if the evidence and witnesses support it being a solid self defense shoot, you'll probably go home shortly.

If the evidence and statements at the scene don't clearly demonstrate that, it won't matter what you say, you'll still most likely be arrested and jailed until someone higher up the food chain can look at the case in depth. That will give you time to secure legal counsel and give a legal statement under the advice of counsel.

Either way, if you plan to use a firearm in self defense, you need to be prepared to spend at least a few hours in custody, even on a good shoot. Don't let that panic you, and don't start running your mouth giving a statement when you are emotionally compromised it can and will be held against you.
 
I see no possible benefit from this, and significant possible harm. You do want to have a record that you have qualified with your weapon in jurisdictions where that is legally necessary, but beyond that I can see no possible benefit.
 
Yeah, no records. I can't imagine how that could possibly help you in a questionable shoot. I can see them being used against you in a questionable one with an activist prosecutor. If anything, if things go bad, you want to be portrayed as a good well meaning chap who was doing the best he could with what he had. Your detailed records explaining your weekly range trips honing your deadly craft are going to betray you.

You: I was scared!
Prosecutor: I see in your records...
 
I keep records of the ammo and issues (if any) for each range trip. It becomes useful when I need to send one off for repair, or want to talk to an ammo mfg about function / quality. Beyond that, my club has my check-in / check-out records, but I would not see those as being anything I would present.

My official training records are on file with the county, but probably in a very dusty box in an annex storeroom.
 
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