Trigger fix on sw9ve...yay or nay?

[noguirre]

This is my first handgun and thus far I've had no problems with it and am very happy. I have noticed the heavy trigger and was searching around for ways to fix this issue, I found a spring for sale on ebay and have been thinking about trying it out. Has anyone else done this fix and have some valuable information...can this lead to any problems later down the road with my sigma? thanks and I appreciate the help!

 

[leejack]

Welcome friend!

nay

Enjoy your sigma!

 

[Jamie]

If you're not having actual problems, there's no NEED to fix it. If you are inclined to tinker and have the ability, there are a few videos on youtube you might look at. Not sure about buying a 'spring' off of ebay, if it's the firing pin spring, don't.

 

[Erich]

My SW9GVE's trigger feels remarkably similar to the DA triggers I've observed on my N-frame S&Ws - smooth, and a bit on the heavy side. It's not an issue with the N-frame, as I only fire six rounds before I get a break. As you get to the bottom of the seventeen rounds, though, that pull will start to wear on a fellow.

Doesn't mean there's anything wrong with the gun, just that seventeen is a lot of pulls on a trigger of this sort. Man up, my friend. That's how the gun was engineered. If you think you know more about how the gun should work than the folks who designed it, by all means futz with it. Me, I'm leaving mine as it came.

 

[Sigma 4060]

The old saying. Don't fix it if it isn't broke.

 

[mtngunr]

if you lighten it according to the many mods posted here and otherwise, it will be limited to glock-type carry with trigger completely covered to prevent it from firing when holster or trigger hangs on something or you are a bit slow in getting finger out of way when holstering....it's heavy for a reason...it's about the only gun of its type truly as safe as a modern DA revolver, because it truly has a trigger as heavy as a modern DA revolver.

 

[cbr6864]

The old bic pen spring does nothing at all but weaken the reset capability. The ONLY way to lighten the trigger is to replace the striker spring, but you may have light strikes

 

[OKFC05]

Consider that S&W has intentionally shut off many parts for the Sigma, so if you lose a spring or screw up the sear, you will have to return the gun to the factory to fix it.

The greatest hazard in buying a used Sigma is that someone has "improved" it until it is no longer reliable, and you can't get sear or striker parts.

Unless you are qualified to work on it and are sure you won't break/lose a part, I'd suggest buying some ammo and going to the range instead.

 

[mlk18]

This is not a good question to ask here because many active posters feel that no Sigma should ever be modified in any way. Primarily because they think the gun may become unreliable, cannot be used for defense anymore, legal reasons, etc., etc., etc. All of these are of course opinions and may or may not be true. In my opinion there is nothing wrong with light modifications to a gun or improving the trigger. The 1911 community has been doing it for 100 years. The S&W K Frame and other revo shooters have been doing so for almost as long. The $0.25 Glock trigger job is almost legendary. Apex, Ghost and dozens of other companies have built their businesses on trigger modifications. But for some reason in the world of the Sigma it is utterly taboo.

 

[Erich]

This is not a good question to ask here because many active posters feel that no Sigma should ever be modified in any way.

That's a little obnoxious, as it's not what's going on.

The $0.25 Glock trigger job is almost legendary.

Which involves smoothing surfaces. I pulled my SW9VE down and did this (it didn't need it hardly at all) before I even shot it. Switching out parts, though, is another thing.

Unlike the situation you mention with 1911s and revolvers, there is hardly a thriving industry dedicated to replacement Sigma parts. And, I wonder how many of those "My 1911 isn't working" complaints can be traced to amateur part-switching. And I've certainly watched my share of fools light-strike with their revolvers after switching to the wrong spring weight.

But that's fine if you're just using your 1911 or revolver at the range. The Sigma isn't designed to be a target gun - it's pretty much just a defensive gun. If you want a target gun, I'd assume you would have bought a pistol better suited for that task - you're not going to turn your Chevy pickumup into much of a dragster, no matter how many parts you switch out. But you might well render it unsuitable for its original use by doing so.

As I said supra, if you know more than the engineers, have at it, amigo. Perhaps you do.

I don't.

 

[mlk18]

That's a little obnoxious, as it's not what's going on

One man's obnoxious is another man's obvious.

The engineers took the Sigma and ultimately produced the M&P and then the SD9. Does that mean that the engineers have rendered the Sigma obsolete? Nope. My house used to only have 3 bedrooms, now it has 5. I improved on the design and now my house is much more functional. That's what the OP wants for his Sigma. The lack of aftermarket for the Sigma only strengthens the argument for modification. Regardless of what the gun was designed to do you can create a balance between skill and mechanical performance. My M&P had a good trigger from the factory, now it has an awesome trigger thanks to Apex.

SW9VE: 2,000+ rounds post trigger job (polished internals and spring removal). 0 malfunctions. Smooth 5lb trigger pull.

SW9E: 3,000+ rounds post trigger job (polished internals and spring removal). 0 malfunctions. Smooth 5lb trigger pull.

 

[cbr6864]

There seems to be a myth out there that you can improve the trigger by replacing the spring with a lighter one or even cutting it down as well as removing the pig-tail spring. All of these will in NO WAY improve the feel or weight of the trigger. This will only result in unreliable trigger reset. A simple way to prove this to be true is to remove the slide and pull the trigger.

The weight you feel is from the striker, as I mentioned before you could replace the striker spring but you may get light strikes. The only way to improve the feel would be to do a fluff n buff or what is also know as the famous .25 trigger job. Even this can prove very harmful if you are not very careful.

The Sigma trigger feels the way it does because it was designed as DAO no matter what you do this fact will remain. Honestly the trigger feels great breaks clean and constantly. The Sigma will make you a better shooter as it teaches you proper trigger control.

 

[mtngunr]

There seems to be a myth out there that you can improve the trigger by replacing the spring with a lighter one or even cutting it down as well as removing the pig-tail spring. All of these will in NO WAY improve the feel or weight of the trigger. This will only result in unreliable trigger reset. A simple way to prove this to be true is to remove the slide and pull the trigger.

The weight you feel is from the striker, as I mentioned before you could replace the striker spring but you may get light strikes. The only way to improve the feel would be to do a fluff n buff or what is also know as the famous .25 trigger job. Even this can prove very harmful if you are not very careful.

The Sigma trigger feels the way it does because it was designed as DAO no matter what you do this fact will remain. Honestly the trigger feels great breaks clean and constantly. The Sigma will make you a better shooter as it teaches you proper trigger control.

I agree totally the gun was designed to be as safe as a modern DA revolver against the gun firing inadvertantly, which is why I BOUGHT the thing in the first place, free to carry it just as i would a revolver, holster or not, my option, and to reduce the pull WILL make the gun less safe for such carry, and more likely to experience the accidents common to most other guns of this type.

It seems, though, that it is incorrect to state the only way pull can be lightened is by lightening the striker. I seriously doubt there is a mass-hallucination going on when people remove springs from sear assy and report VASTLY lighter pulls as you are reducing the TOTAL pull of sear assy PLUS striker, and mechanical advantage of the trigger shrinks due to camming action in sear assy the further it is compressed and stack-up occurs..... Also, the trigger return spring never gets mentioned as a way of reducing pull....although no argument from me that it can mess with reset speed, which it surely will to one degree or another, whether noticed by shooter or not....a good example of the reset thing would be world-class shooters leaving heavier springs installed for fastest reset as they are fast enough they NEED that quickest possible reset.

 

[cbr6864]

It seems, though, that it is incorrect to state the only way pull can be lightened is by lightening the striker. I seriously doubt there is a mass-hallucination going on when people remove springs from sear assy and report VASTLY lighter pulls as you are reducing the TOTAL pull of sear assy PLUS striker.....

If you remove or lighten any of the springs in the sear assembly you are still left with the heavy striker spring. If you have 2 springs which are mechanically linked (one is 2lbs the other is 10lbs) and remove or lighten the smaller spring you are still left with the weight of the heavier spring.

Not to call anyone a liar, but I think the claims of a lighter trigger after removing the pig-tail spring and/or removing or replacing one of the two springs in the sear assembly is a bit of an exaggeration to justify the time spent.

It is simple not possible to reduce the weight of the trigger as some have stated without modifying the striker spring. I guess you could file away at the sear to make it break early but that would only hurt the reliability.

It just worries me that so many are modifying their Sigma without truly knowing what they are doing. A Youtube search will show this to be true.

Not trying to argue I just cant understand why someone would put a spring from a pen or a mechanical pencil in their firearm

 

[mtngunr]

Not trying to argue I just cant understand why someone would put a spring from a pen or a mechanical pencil in their firearm

My understanding of the pen spring thing is that they are removing the pigtail, which doesn't do much by itself as for weight reduction, then removing the inner spring on the strut, and installing the pen spring as a filler so the larger OD heavy spring doesn't kink, while keeping reliable reset....the gun can function for many by removing the pigtail and the large outer strut spring, but enough folk had problems with reset that the stiffer outer spring was left in place with the pen spring filler installed...

Or any permutation you can think of with these....which is fine for a range gun, but begging a gun firing when not planned otherwise, as far as a carry gun...most folk doing these mods don't know of the problems Glock-type guns have in firing unplanned...they don't know the Glock manual of arms includes having a rigid holster which completely shrouds the trigger...and the S&W Sigma manual doesn't have such a precaution as the design does not require such....but modify the gun, and it surely does, but they do not know it...kids playing with matches

 

[Jamie]

There seems to be a myth out there that you can improve the trigger by replacing the spring with a lighter one or even cutting it down as well as removing the pig-tail spring. All of these will in NO WAY improve the feel or weight of the trigger. This will only result in unreliable trigger reset. A simple way to prove this to be true is to remove the slide and pull the trigger.

The weight you feel is from the striker, as I mentioned before you could replace the striker spring but you may get light strikes. The only way to improve the feel would be to do a fluff n buff or what is also know as the famous .25 trigger job. Even this can prove very harmful if you are not very careful.

The Sigma trigger feels the way it does because it was designed as DAO no matter what you do this fact will remain. Honestly the trigger feels great breaks clean and constantly. The Sigma will make you a better shooter as it teaches you proper trigger control.

I completely disagree, my 'modded' trigger is quite a bit lighter and smoother. My future son in law just bought the same gun, I checked 'em back to back, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE! As has been previously reported, I have shot quite a few rounds through the gun, just spent a weekend at a tactical training class, close to 600 rounds, single, double and triple taps, full mag to empty rapid fire, reload, do it again, NO PROBLEMS! "A man of experience is never at the mercy of a man of theory"

 

[cbr6864]

I completely disagree, my 'modded' trigger is quite a bit lighter and smoother. My future son in law just bought the same gun, I checked 'em back to back, THERE IS A DIFFERENCE! As has been previously reported, I have shot quite a few rounds through the gun, just spent a weekend at a tactical training class, close to 600 rounds, single, double and triple taps, full mag to empty rapid fire, reload, do it again, NO PROBLEMS! "A man of experience is never at the mercy of a man of theory"

can you explain to me how removing the outer spring or the pig-tail will lighten the trigger pull? The weight you feel is the striker spring. Take the slide off of a stock Sigma and pull the trigger there is almost zero resistance. You could remove all of the sear assembly springs and still be left with a heavy pull because it is a DAO.

 

[blkpitbull]

Let me just say that I have taken out the pigtail spring, polished smooth all of the contact points on the sear and trigger arm, and the contacts of the sear and the striker.

IT FEELS TONS SMOOTHER, maybe the smooooth feeling, feels "lighter" and it does feel lighter, but it may just be the smoothness, making it feel lighter..
My gun had a terrible "gritty" trigger pull witht the slide off, stock....its very smooth now...

I had one "failure to reset trigger" but this was before I did anything....since my trigger work I have had NO problems whatsoever....

SO even if it doesnt actually Lighten the trigger, a good polish job DEFINATELY smooths everything out, and very worth it IMO!!

 

[Zebra365]

I'm going to go against the majority (so far) grain a little here. First of all, if this is your first handgun, there is no way you should mess with it or do any of the things I'm going to describe here (actually a reprint of my old post) or consider the YouTube stuff. If you want these things done, they should be done by a qualified gunsmith and S&W probably won't pay for it.

I originally felt the Sigma I bought was junk, partly due to a hard trigger but mostly due to a "gritty" feel, and I was going to trade up to a M&P. I sent it to an official S&W gunsmith and it came back with the note, "replaced sear housing". If anything, the trigger was worse. My gauge doesn't go that high but I would estimate a 15 lb, gritty trigger pull. BTW the Sigma is my tenth handgun that I currently own.

The trigger pull weight of a gun, particularly a double-action (I'm not going to get into the debate about "it's not double action because it doesn't have a hammer"), is dependent on two things: friction and springs.

The design of the gun generally assumes that friction will go to near zero with use and then the springs will be the main factor. You can either put one or two thousand rounds through it, or you can mimic what that does and enjoy good shooting right away.

My SW40VE is well-designed, but rather cheaply manufactured, which means the out of the box heavy trigger-pull is mostly caused by friction, and I think that posters who are happy with the trigger out of the box probably got a smoother specimen than I did.

I've looked at the Internet videos and seen that they mostly involve doing something with the springs. If the main problem is friction, then messing with the springs is breaking something that isn't broken, instead of fixing what is broken. I've got guns that are over 100 years old and still in good working condition, ball-point pen springs are not built to last 100 years in a gun.

The problem is not in the trigger but in the lower sear mechanism. The "gritty" feeling comes from there, as does a lot of the friction.

The sear in any gun is two metal surfaces like blocks that face each other under spring pressure when the gun is cocked and the trigger causes them to slide apart, abruptly releasing the hammer, or in this case, the striker. Technically the sear is the single part that holds back the hammer (or, in the Sigma, the striker tang) but I'm using "upper" and "lower" here for clarity.

In the SW40VE the lower sear and sear housing are located in the rear of the frame. The lower sear is a cam which, when connected to the trigger by a simple metal link, will move rearward and downward, thus cocking the striker and then releasing it through a single trigger pull. The upper sear, or striker tang, is in the slide, connected to the striker.

The "grittiness" is caused by the fact that slot in the lower sear has been roughly machined, causing the bar that pushes the lower sear rearward to "chatter" through the machining marks. Also, the lower sear has an "S" shaped curve at the rear which interacts with a plastic ramp in the sear housing to drive the cam downward as it proceeds rearward. Again, rough machining marks here cause friction. The plastic is not the smoothest it could be, due to mold marks.

Finally, the surfaces of both the upper sear (attached to the striker in the slide) and the lower sear are roughly machined surfaces, causing friction.

So the real "trigger fix" is:

1. Smooth and polish the contact surface of the slot inside of the cam that is the lower sear (one poster said he took most of the fuzz off a Q-tip and put it in a dremel chuck, using metal polish to polish the slot at a very low speed.)

2. Smooth and polish the part of the lower sear cam that contacts the plastic sear housing as it moves rearward

3. Smooth and polish the mold marks on the plastic sear housing that contact the sear cam

4. Smooth and polish the contact surface (which contacts the upper sear) of the lower sear

5. Smooth and polish the contact surface of the upper sear (striker tang) which contacts the lower sear (you need to remove the striker from the slide to do this)

Some purists will object to 4 and 5, saying that the sear will be rounded and less crisp. But if you carefully polish the surfaces with the flat stick, that will be minimal. And a crisp sear is much more important and noticeable in a single action than a double action.

WARNING: Do not use a power tool for these steps! It is too easy to remove too much metal.

I used a flat metal fingernail file from Revlon to get the machine marks out (thanks to my wife who gave it to me a long while back). It fits in the slot. I would say that the rough side is about 400 grit and the smooth is about 500.

Then I used a 600 grit "Angle Cut Sanding Stick" (works better when wet) from www.stevenshobby.com to polish the surfaces mentioned.

You need a jeweler's loupe or some other 10X magnifier to look at the original condition and to see when you have polished enough.

Finally, I lubed all contact surfaces (including the side of the sear housing that contacts the sear) with a Hob-E-Lube dry graphite and molybdenum (HL651). Look for a hobby store that sells electric trains, for this stuff. I like dry lubes or Rem-oil in guns because neither tend to collect grit.

I would say the trigger pull is now smooth and comparable to a Glock 23 or the new S&W SD (which has a redesigned rotating sear mechanism that has its own issues.) Not as good as a S&W M&P.45, which I have also fired. The trigger pull weight breaks at 8 lbs, which I think is still safe for carry with one in the chamber.

No removed or replaced springs, but with the smoother, lighter, trigger, it's a keeper.

 

[EPWrangler]

I used a glock 19 striker spring from wolff. I had no light strikes but it did a lot to lighten the trigger.