U.S. Bayonet 03 Model 1942

[HOUSTON RICK]

I have been tracking down a bayonet for my future Springfield Model 1903. I had hoped to get a US 03 Model 1942 and I found one today at (where else) Collector's Firearms in Houston. It is legit with scabbard in all of its 16" glory and perfect markings, only problem is they are asking $350. I expected closer to $200. Is that a legitimate price, and yes, I am already trying to figure out how to get that much cash by the wife for a bayonet. I have a hard time arguing with myself for $350 for a bayonet. Online price guides were no help. Thank you for your thoughts.

 

[wx7b]

1907 bayonets and scabbards going for around $179.

 

[inspcalahan]

Check the Civilian Marksmanship Program online store. They may have what you're looking for. I picked up a good variety of bayonets and scabbards from them a few years ago, for fair prices as well.

 

[30-30remchester]

The neat thing you have found is the 16" length. Most WWII bayonets were 10" long. The 16" blades in existence were recalled and shortened to 10" and the extra 6" of cut of was re-purposed. The sheath is also uncommon. I have a number of 16" bayonets but I do not have a single sheath for that length.

 

[30-30remchester]

The neat thing you have found is the 16" length. Most WWII bayonets were 10" long. The 16" blades in existence were recalled and shortened to 10" and the extra 6" of cut of was re-purposed. The sheath is also uncommon. I have a number of 16" bayonets but I do not have a single sheath for that length.

 

[Stevie]

The long US 1942 bayonets and scabbards are well represented in the reproduction market. I would be careful buying one without some knowledge of what a real-deal looks like...and what a repro looks like.

I'm guessing a genuine M1905 bayonet could be found for maybe $175 to $250 or so. Not sure just what a real-deal M1942 version sells for but I imagine for same or less than a 1905

 

[jlrhiner]

Stevie is correct. There are many reproductions out there. Caveat emptor.

Now, if it's real, and provenance exists, you could easily get to $350.00 for a complete example. I would personally go that, as the scabbard alone is worth $75 to $125, depending on condition.

But again, BudK is selling them now, be very, very careful.

 

[inspcalahan]

Stevie is correct. There are many reproductions out there. Caveat emptor.

Now, if it's real, and provenance exists, you could easily get to $350.00 for a complete example. I would personally go that, as the scabbard alone is worth $75 to $125, depending on condition.

But again, BudK is selling them now, be very, very careful.

Lots of TRUTH to this regarding reproductions! I've got a nice pile of "Colt" bayonets that I bought in a batch for a great deal - good thing too - they make handy prybars, paint can openers and tree cutting dirt diggers for the kids. But boy oh boy does that Colt logo look good..

As to the originals, how would one establish provenance or authenticity for value? Unlike guns, where often you can get a factory letter or similar, that's not going to happen with bayonets and scabbards. I have a few old 10" blades with scabbards that I picked up at surplus stores in the 80s, before the reproductions really hit the market, so I'm fairly positive those are authentic.

I also picked up a 16" and a matching scabbard from CMP a few years back - around $250 I believe. They came packed separately and covered in cosmoline. I'm safely assuming if the CMP sold them, they'd be authentic. But say in 20 years I want to sell them, how would I best go about proving they are the real deal?

 

[M1A]

I have found that passing up on something I really want for the price of a fancy dinner causes me nothing but regret. How are they stamped?
I got a 10" for my 03A3 & Garand, stamped when it was 16" and an additional stamp making it 10". About $100.00 with the scabbard a couple years back.
If it's the real deal I'd go for it for it. Makes the M1903 complete.

 

[jlrhiner]

Lots of TRUTH to this regarding reproductions! I've got a nice pile of "Colt" bayonets that I bought in a batch for a great deal - good thing too - they make handy prybars, paint can openers and tree cutting dirt diggers for the kids. But boy oh boy does that Colt logo look good..

As to the originals, how would one establish provenance or authenticity for value? Unlike guns, where often you can get a factory letter or similar, that's not going to happen with bayonets and scabbards. I have a few old 10" blades with scabbards that I picked up at surplus stores in the 80s, before the reproductions really hit the market, so I'm fairly positive those are authentic.

I also picked up a 16" and a matching scabbard from CMP a few years back - around $250 I believe. They came packed separately and covered in cosmoline. I'm safely assuming if the CMP sold them, they'd be authentic. But say in 20 years I want to sell them, how would I best go about proving they are the real deal?

In a situation like yours, having the original paperwork from CMP would make all the difference in the world. As far as the OP's bayonet, they're going to have to provide some documentation to back it up. There are identifying marks on them, but those too are easily faked. Personally, I would have to know where it came from. Eg; Mrs. Smith's husband brought this back from Guadalcanal, here's a picture of him with it.

When your talking $350.00 for a bayonet, there better be provenance.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

I reckon, it is time to pull the trigger.

 

[Slufstuff]

JMO, but I think that price is on the high side by about $100. You should be able to find what you are looking for in the $200 to $250 price range.

As for the repro's, if you have any experience with US bayonet collecting, the repro's on the market are very easy to spot. None I have seen would fool anybody with even a minimal knowledge of the subject. I recommend getting a copy of Gary Cunningham's book, US Knife Bayonets & Scabbards, a Collectors Guide. Get the latest edition with the full color cover that was published this summer, it is much improved over the first edition. Very economical reference, you can find it for about $30 on-line. Very good value and it will get you up to speed on the basics of US knife bayonets.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

The 1942 variant is rather unique. It was essentially a copy of the US M1905, but with bakelite grips and parkerized finish. Very few were actually issued in original 16" blade; the decision had been made to go to a 10" blade bayonet, and most of the 16" bayonets were sent out to be cut down to 10" blades (including the brand new M1942's).

The cut-downs started with the "beak" point or "Bowie" point, featuring a single sweeping radius cut from the blade edge to the upper false edge. These are commonly referred to as the M1905E. Ricasso markings identifying the producer (RIA=Rock Island Armory, SA=Springfield Armory), serial numbers, and Ordnance stamps were left intact, with the contractor marking the upper edge of the tang with its identifying mark (UFH=Union Fork & Hoe, AFH=American Fork & Hoe).

Most of the cut-downs were done with a spear point cut. Those are commonly referred to as the M1905E1. On most of these the original maker's marks and serial numbers were ground off and the contractor's identifying marks were placed at the ricasso (UFH, AFH, etc).

The newly manufactured 10" bayonet was called the M1. These feature ricasso markings to identify producer (AFH, UFH, WT=Wilde Tool, etc).

All of these variations will work with either the US M1 Garand or US M1903 and 03/A3 rifles. The M1942 (16") is most properly known as the first bayonet for the M1 Garand. The M1903 Springfields would most properly be paired with the earlier M1905 bayonets. WW2 production 03/A3 rifles were produced at the same time as the M1942 bayonets, so that combination would be historically appropriate.

All have been in big demand since ODCMP escalated release of M1 rifles about 15 years ago. Prices have steadily climbed as collectors have scooped up available bayonets.

The M1942 you are considering, assuming excellent and original condition, is a very good find. The fact that it is now owned by a dealer in antique arms with a very broad customer base means that someone is going to pay top dollar for that piece. If you want it you will have to pay the price, with the only real alternative being further shopping and searching.

Best regards.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

Thanks everyone, it is not a repro, has the correct markings and I have put it on hold pending my next visit next week.

 

[PALADIN85020]

It's a little known fact, but the bayonets issued with the Model 1903s and the M1 Garands (with muzzle rings) will also fit the Krag-Jorgensen infantry-length rifles. Conversely, the Krag bayonets will also fit the 1903s and the M1s.

The cadets at West Point used the shorter Krag bayonets on their rifles through the M1 era - the dark metal scabbards and the shiny un-blued blades made them great for parade work.

John