Unexpected Naval History

[bigwheelzip]

The last surviving ship from the Japanese attack on Pearl Harbor, to eventually be lost to enemy action, is also the only ship ever sunk in battle by a nuclear powered submarine.

It's a light cruiser of the Brooklyn-class. It was named USS Phoenix when it fought the Japanese for the USA. It was sold to Argentina, and renamed General Belgrano when the British submarine HMS Conqueror sunk it during the Falkland Islands War.

 

[HOUSTON RICK]

I remember the Falkland War. All started to distract Argentines from their domestic issues.

 

[LVSteve]

I remember the Falkland War. All started to distract Argentines from their domestic issues.

Aided and abetted by a wimpy UK Foreign Office who never wanted to do anything that appeared imperialist and upsetting to another nation. My father worked for the UK Ministry of Defence back then, and was PO'd beyond all recognition. He worked some odd hours during that crisis doing I know not what.

That war did provide a kick up the rear for the UK armed forces that it needed. The Navy found out it had been buying gray painted pleasure cruisers for a couple of decades, the army found out that other than the Marines and the SAS they were unfit and unprepared for combat, and the RAF had to face the reality that it no longer had a global reach.

 

[Bugkiller99]

Aided and abetted by a wimpy UK Foreign Office who never wanted to do anything that appeared imperialist and upsetting to another nation. My father worked for the UK Ministry of Defence back then, and was PO'd beyond all recognition. He worked some odd hours during that crisis doing I know not what.

That war did provide a kick up the rear for the UK armed forces that it needed. The Navy found out it had been buying gray painted pleasure cruisers for a couple of decades, the army found out that other than the Marines and the SAS they were unfit and unprepared for combat, and the RAF had to face the reality that it no longer had a global reach.

Jeez, LVSteve, why don't you tell us how you really feel?

 

[tennexplorer]

That war did provide a kick up the rear for the UK armed forces that it needed. The Navy found out it had been buying gray painted pleasure cruisers for a couple of decades, the army found out that other than the Marines and the SAS they were unfit and unprepared for combat, and the RAF had to face the reality that it no longer had a global reach.

Too bad Vanguard was not still around for that war.

 

[tlawler]

I remember that very well. Two days after the Belgrano was sunk, the HMS Sheffield was hit by an by Exocet missile and several ships stationed at Diego and Pearl received orders to make preparations to steam South and to stand by. We were somewhere out off San Diego, just having completed a port call there when we got our orders. We steamed around off of Baja California for a couple of weeks before we got orders to stand down and return to Pearl. Being in engineering, we really didn't know what was going on, but rumors abounded about the Sheffield getting hit and later sinking. We later found out the Sheffield was a ship very similar in size and with an aluminum superstructure like ours that burned and couldn't be put out when their firefighting capability was destroyed by the missile. Quite an eye opener that one missile could do all that damage.

 

[LVSteve]

Jeez, LVSteve, why don't you tell us how you really feel?

Hard lessons are rarely compatible with pretty language. I suspect Margaret Thatcher's full, unbiased opinions on the matter at the time would have stripped paint at a considerable distance.

 

[Absalom]

On the bright side (well, sort of):

In the last flare-up of the Cold War, just as it looked like NATO and the Warsaw Pact might incinerate Europe with SS-20 and Pershing II, it was refreshing to watch an old-fashioned colonial war fought at the end of the world between armies where civilians by and large didn't get in the way.

Officially about 900 military personnel and 3 civilians died on all sides. A vastly preferable ratio to pretty much any other war Europeans have fought.

 

[Ziggy2525]

I remember that very well. Two days after the Belgrano was sunk, the HMS Sheffield was hit by an by Exocet missile and several ships stationed at Diego and Pearl received orders to make preparations to steam South and to stand by. We were somewhere out off San Diego, just having completed a port call there when we got our orders. We steamed around off of Baja California for a couple of weeks before we got orders to stand down and return to Pearl. Being in engineering, we really didn't know what was going on, but rumors abounded about the Sheffield getting hit and later sinking. We later found out the Sheffield was a ship very similar in size and with an aluminum superstructure like ours that burned and couldn't be put out when their firefighting capability was destroyed by the missile. Quite an eye opener that one missile could do all that damage.

The Exocet attack on the Sheffield is what sticks with me from the news coverage at the time. It seemed like U.S. Navy leadership was surprised by the damage and concerned about their ability to defend againt anti-ship missles after that.

 

[tennexplorer]

The Exocet attack on the Sheffield is what sticks with me from the news coverage at the time. It seemed like U.S. Navy leadership was surprised by the damage and concerned about their ability to defend againt anti-ship missles after that.

That concern was one of the reasons, but not a major one, for the reactivation of the Iowas. Apparently the lessons of the Eilat (Israeli destroyer) and the gunboats, and the Belknap collision were lost on the puzzle palace.

 

[LVSteve]

That concern was one of the reasons, but not a major one, for the reactivation of the Iowas. Apparently the lessons of the Eilat (Israeli destroyer) and the gunboats, and the Belknap collision were lost on the puzzle palace.

Had not heard about the Belknap collision. A bit more Wiki revealed that the JFK was a magnet for other ships and arsonists.

 

[STCM(SW)]

I was the CMC on the Belknap after it was rebuilt in PA.
Strange with the upper half all new and below old........

 

[mtgianni]

One commentary I read had ongoing negotiations to hand of the Falklands to Argentina since the mid 60's. They tapered off rather than broke off. The Islanders themselves wanted nothing to do with Argentina and were the main protesters to a handoff.

Chile and Argentina have hated each other since the settling of each state. The southerns usually get along but the cities and Government trust each other not at all. As soon as the dust over the war was settling Chile was reaching out and became the Falklands main supplier with frequent flights to Punta Arenas rather than Bahia Blanca.

What I found surprising about Stanley was that in the main market there was no local meat for sale, neither fish nor lamb though there were plenty of fishing fleets working out of there and sheep are the main industry. It has a great harbor and not much else as far as scenery goes. I keep their temperature on my phone for giggles as the winter and summer temps usually vary less than 10 degrees F from night to day.

 

[AJ]

It had our attention. My Squadron was doing work ups on the USS Saratoga at the time.

 

[Dave_n]

The previous time that the Falklands "were in the news" from a naval perspective, was in late 1914 when two RN Battle Cruisers made a "slight amendment" to the number of Armored Cruisers in the German Navy's Asiatic Squadron. Turned out that approx 8" guns did not equal the 12" guns on the two RN BCs. Dave_n

 

[DeathGrip]

You Navy guys have stones. It's one thing to have stuff blown up all around you and bullets flying by. But to do that in the middle of the ocean? Big Stones

 

[tlawler]

I was the CMC on the Belknap after it was rebuilt in PA.
Strange with the upper half all new and below old........

The Belknap is well known to any fleet sailor that ever went through Damage Control & Firefighting School. The fortitude shown by the sailors who wouldn't give up their ship is often cited as an example of how sailors should act in the face of insurmountable odds.

 

[BSA1]

On the bright side (well, sort of):

In the last flare-up of the Cold War, just as it looked like NATO and the Warsaw Pact might incinerate Europe with SS-20 and Pershing II, it was refreshing to watch an old-fashioned colonial war fought at the end of the world between armies where civilians by and large didn't get in the way.

Officially about 900 military personnel and 3 civilians died on all sides. A vastly preferable ratio to pretty much any other war Europeans have fought.

I disagree that there is anything on the bright side of that war.

Argentina has a strong historical and geographical claim on the Falkland Islands.

England had a Colony it didn't want. It was a drain on their National Budget in addition to being difficult to defend. With most of the population being British the Government was in a difficult position of being accused of selling out to a foreign nation.

It basically was a battle of egos and national pride and served no purpose in world affairs. England is struck with a colony it doesn't want but now can never let go of due to the British military personnel killed and wounded.

 

[timjake]

If you want a good documentary about the Falklands War, watch "Falklands Task Force South." It's by reporters who were on the Royal Navy ships and came ashore with the invasion.

The big thing with the ships getting hit was fire. The Exocet that hit HMS Sheffield didn't explode, but the burning propellant set fire to the aluminum and paint. Several of the ships lost were lost to fire.

Also, if the Argentine bombs had been properly fused, the RN would have lost several more ships.

 

[Rudi]

The Falklands war was a wake up call to all the world's navies. Missile warfare had come of age.