UPDATE - POST #14: A Question For All the Hi-Power Experts

[Watchdog]

I've been wanting a more or less standard early Hi-Power for the longest time now. Just a plain ol' Hi-Power with the basic G.I. style sights and spur hammer.

I came across this one locally and will probably go back Monday for a closer look. It's about as plain as they come.

What's interesting is that although the serial numbers all match on the barrel, slide, and frame, the serial number doesn't show up in Browning's serial number lookup for the Hi-Power.

Even more strange, the only rollmark is on the left side of the slide and says simply "F. N. BROWNING".

There are three proof marks...trigger guard, barrel, and right rear of the slide...but I can't remember what they look like and I can't tell from these photos. The one on the slide is different from the ones on the barrel and trigger guard.

The grips are plastic or composition. At first glance, the pistol appears to have been refinished in a sort of matte finish. And I'm not seeing any Israeli proof markings like a bunch of these seen lately for cheap prices on Internet sales sites. And this one is not priced cheap. I only looked at it in the case, didn't actually handle it.

Anyone ever see any Hi-Powers similar to this one? These are not my photographs, by the way.

 

[FifthWheel]

I'm no expert but I've seen some Argentina slides marked similarly but it usually says Argentina also and FM rather than FN.
Unusual roll mark for sure. The SN appears to be Argentine format.

 

[Sistema1927]

I wouldn't let the SN throw you off. FN made the Hi-Power in lots of different SN ranges for various contracts.

However, the rollmark leads me to believe that what you are looking at is actually an Argentine FM, prior to FN threatening them for using that rollmark.

 

[old tanker]

FEG reputedly made guns marked FN for some mid-eastern country to get around an arms embargo.

Nine Known Copies of the Browning High Power | Highpowercollectors

 

[Farmer17]

Don't know looks good enough to offer em' 500 bucks I've seen a lot of Hi Powers buying and selling recently since they quit making them so I bet the prices will be going up quickly.

 

[Watchdog]

I'm no expert but I've seen some Argentina slides marked similarly but it usually says Argentina also and FM rather than FN.
Unusual roll mark for sure. The SN appears to be Argentine format.

I wouldn't let the SN throw you off. FN made the Hi-Power in lots of different SN ranges for various contracts.

However, the rollmark leads me to believe that what you are looking at is actually an Argentine FM, prior to FN threatening them for using that rollmark.

Thanks to both of you for the clues. I'm leaning towards believing this might be an Argentine Hi-Power.

FEG reputedly made guns marked FN for some mid-eastern country to get around an arms embargo.

Nine Known Copies of the Browning High Power | Highpowercollectors

Thanks for that link. One part was particularly interesting, and that's the section that deals with the Argentine FN and FM Hi-Powers. I'll reprint part of that section here for anyone else who's interested. Note that this material and photos are copyright by the Hipowercollectors Forum and Gunblast. Also of particular interest are the details about the slide serrations. The one I'm looking at locally does have the finer, more Browning-like serrations. Any bold print in the quoted material is my doing.

I also wonder if there exists a serial number register/listing for the authorized Argentine Hi-Powers that were manufactured from 1969-1989? Anyone have any thoughts on that?

"Almost as frequently discussed are the High Power variants made in Argentina, which also tend to be the subject of a good deal of confusion. This is mainly due to the fact that Argentina produced both licensed FN copies and unauthorized copies at different times but by the same conglomerate - Direccion General Fabrications Militares, or FM for short.

Both versions are often referred to as “Argentine Hi Powers” on internet discussion forums, and this has worsened the confusion considerably because it fails to distinguish between the licensed and unauthorized copies. So, we will offer this brief clarification in hopes of helping everyone arrive at a clear understanding of these pistols and their history.

In 1969 the Argentine government negotiated an agreement with FN in Belgium to manufacture their High Power pistol under license in Argentina. The guns produced under this license are Browning High Powers in every respect, being essentially a copy of the 1965 version of the High Power. They were built from FN plans to FN standards, and are generally considered to be the qualitative equal of the European High Powers. These pistols are “license-built copies,” and were produced until 1989.

After the licensing agreement with FN expired in 1989, the Argentine government’s FM complex, which had made the earlier license-built FN copies, made some fairly minor cosmetic modifications to the FN design and continued to produce the pistol, beginning in 1990, as the FM 90, and later as the updated FM 95. These pistols are unauthorized copies. They are serviceable arms but they were not built to FN standards of fit and finish and are generally considered to be utilitarian military-grade pistols. They are not considered to be the qualitative equal of the license-built Browning High Power copies made between 1969 and 1989.

Buyers should take care to make sure they know which variant they are buying, as the license built FN variant is more valuable in the marketplace than the unauthorized copies, the FM90 and FM95, and the internet is alive with incorrect information about them. Here’s how you can tell them apart.

The most visible difference is in the front and rear ends of the slide. The license built copies have traditional Hi Power contours up front and typical fine FN slide serrations in the rear. The FM 90 and 95 have the frontal slide contours of the M1911 pistol, omitting the machine operations necessary to slim it down up front like the BHP, and having very coarse serrations in the rear of the slide. The photos below illustrate the differences between the license-built copies and the unauthorized copies."

This is an example of the license-built copy of the Browning High Power.
Note the typical BHP contours at the front of the slide and the fine serrations at the rear of the slide.

This is the first of the unauthorized FM clones, the FM 90.
Note the 1911 style contours at the front of the slide and the coarser slide serrations.

This is the second, or updated, unauthorized FM clone, the FM 95. Again note the slide contours and serrations.
This particular model is known for having its model number and name emblazoned on the slide.

 

[Sistema1927]

FEG reputedly made guns marked FN for some mid-eastern country to get around an arms embargo.

Nine Known Copies of the Browning High Power | Highpowercollectors

The FEG made FN fakes have serial numbers that begin with a letter.

 

[alwslate]

Browning serial numbers are on the front of the grip frame. I don't see
any there on your gun in question.

 

[Texas Star]

My son carried the usual Beretta M-9 while a US soldier. But as a security contractor later, he had a MK III Browning.

It always went bang when it should and whoever he was aiming at fell down and died. You can't ask for more from a combat pistol.

Evidently, no one had told Iraqi insurgents that 9mm NATO ball ammo is ineffective.

 

[Richard Simmons]

Here’s an FM I picked up recently.

 

[Texas Star]

FYI--

FM= Fabrica Militar. Just in case anyone here doesn't know.

I once spent an enjoyable half hour or 45 minutes with the wife of the Director, seeing a video of their city, Rosario, at the SHOT show. She was very surprised to meet an American who knew anything about South America, inc. Argentina.

I had one of the FM 9mm's on loan to write an article. It was reliable and accurate and a good buy for the money.

I do prefer the MK III for its stronger slide. But normal use won't break the older style slides. That rumor is based on British SAS men and cops firing a LOT of their very hot Radway Green Arsenal-loaded ammo meant mainly for Sterling SMG's.

I wouldn't run a lot of Plus P 9mm in a Browning, but you don't need to. Federal's No. 9BP load is potent and has a good street record, and is normal pressure. I think it's plenty potent for most coyotes and raccoons, etc.

That said, if I was carrying in harm's way, I'd load either Gold Dot or HST 124 grain Plus P ammo. I just wouldn't routinely use it for range ammo.

Besides the FM loan gun, I've owned two Hi-Powers and my son has owned a MK III, plus the one he carried in Iraq. All but one were reliable. That was a tangent-sighted one that I think had the extractor fitted too tightly. It sometimes balked, even with hardball.

 

[Watchdog]

Here’s an FM I picked up recently.

Now this interests me. I can't tell for sure by looking at your photos, but your pistol seems to have the same proof marks on the trigger guard, barrel, and right rear of the slide behing the serrations as the one I'll be looking at again Monday.

Except the one here is clearly marked "FN".

Thanks for posting this.

 

[italiansport]

J&G up in Prescott had a lot of Kareems(Israeli) Hi-Power clones back a few years ago at very reasonable prices - around $300 as I remember it. I bought one and other than the cosmetic issues it's been a very reliable and accurate shooter. J&G knew little about then other then that's where they came from.
Jim

 

[Watchdog]

Well, I think I've found answers to my questions about my "Mystery Hi-Power".

I did more online searching and found one almost exactly like the one I looked at. I didn't return to the LGS for another look at it, by the way.

But the one I found online is marked exactly like mine...except it has an import rollmark on it. So it's definitely an Argentine Hi-Power. The photograph isn't mine.

The information comes from a 9-year-old thread on another forum.

One person says these guns were manufactured after the Falklands war, but before the FN license expired. He refers to these guns as "Sterile FNs".

Another person states, "There is no definitive answer to the question why the Argentineans droped the three line marking and started to mark the HP pistols with the F.N. BROWNING mark. Some collectors claim that after the licensing agreement expired the Argentineans did not feel that they had to (or could not) make reference to the FN license. Other collectors claim that the FN BROWNING marking was used to make these pistols more appealing in the export market, and maybe hiding their origin. Regardless the markings, the Argentinean made HP pistols are easy to identify as such because of the serial numbering used and the fact that the frames are marked on the right side of the trigger guard with an Argentine proof mark."

Anyway, to wind this up, I really don't plan on making a trip back to the LGS for another look at this pistol. Reason being, they simply want too much for the gun...well over $1K.

A Browning Hi-Power is sort of a whim-grail gun for me, anyway, because I'm a dedicated .45acp 1911 shooter. If I find one like I want in the condition I want and at a reasonable price, I'm sure I'll get it, anyway. It just won't be the one I saw last week.

This is a photo of the similar pistol I found.

 

[Texas Star]

It's likely that those were marked for Armscorp, the US importer.

Those marked Licencia FN could fool some people, too. It just means made under license from FN, not really made by FN in Belgium.

The MK III that my son carried in Iraq was definitely a Belgian gun. It had the dull gray military finish. He also had a civilian one bought in the USA, a normal commercial Browning import with bright blue finish.It shot like a target pistol!