Upside down shoulder holsters

[Naphtali]

What are advantages - if any - of shoulder holsters carrying small and medium framed revolvers upside down compared with more popular carries?

Must such shoulder holsters be of break-front pattern?

 

[rednichols]

These are incredibly light and compact; and the butt to the rear removes the bulk of a vertical, for example. They were developed around the same time as the horizontal (Berns-Martin and Chic Gaylord, respectively) and were replaced first by the elastic style which had a sting in its tail: guns dropping out because they didn't have to displace inside the holster as much as the spring versions. Improved spring versions followed these; the one of these with the best rep is the Bianchi 9R2. Suited only to Smith, Colt, Charter and similar with a flat recoil shield behind the cylinder; not suited to the Ruger, for example, and more recent revolvers similarly equipped. The Bianchi 209, for example, is an elastic style with a good rep and works with the Ruger style recoil shield.

The draw across the chest is very natural in the upside-down style. But generally it is only the spring styles that force this draw, across the chest, thus ensuring good retention; many of the elastic style made in the 60s and 70s require too little movement and one is essentially just dragging the revolver out of the mouth of the holster, rather than snapping it loose.

 

[s&wchad]

I'll add that some makers (like Alessi) used a "pull through" lift-a-dot snap to retain the gun. The snap was released by simply pulling the gun while giving it a slight twist. They used the same system on IWB/OWB holsters.

Photo taken from www

 

[Old cop]

I tried a variety of shoulder holsters to include the upside down version but could never get used to them. Heavier guns made my shoulders ache and others were just plain uncomfortable. Right now I have two like new leftie shoulder holsters for J frame revolvers that get no use.

 

[Vonkendell]

Have the Bianchi 9r2, a couple of Ken null synthetics
And a safariland 19.
The 9r2 is my favorite for j frame and detective special

The safariland is great for my colt detective special

The Ken null uses a twisting motion for release and handle
My n and L frames just fine. All synthetic and white
Blends into my white dress shirts with a suit
The city slicker model with a light weight j frame is
Extremely comfortable

The 9r2 is one of the most interesting designs
Wish some one would start making them again in leather
Like the originals. Probably very expensive.
Wearing one right now with
A model 60 with buffalo bore.

I think there is a company called nevada leather
That sells an elastic design very similar to the safariland
19 but sizes all the way up to n frames. Recall they were
Possibly made for nevada outside the USA.

I wear mostly suits and sport coats and when I buy them
I bring my rig to the tailor to see that everything fits
Right and conceals.

Von

 

[crazyphil]

Lawrence made a model 5V Undercover pigskin shoulder holster.
Pretty good one made only for Colts Cobra & S&Ws Chief with 2-inch
barrels.

 

[Naphtali]

These are incredibly light and compact; and the butt to the rear removes the bulk of a vertical, for example. They were developed around the same time as the horizontal (Berns-Martin and Chic Gaylord, respectively) and were replaced first by the elastic style which had a sting in its tail: guns dropping out because they didn't have to displace inside the holster as much as the spring versions. Improved spring versions followed these; the one of these with the best rep is the Bianchi 9R2. Suited only to Smith, Colt, Charter and similar with a flat recoil shield behind the cylinder; not suited to the Ruger, for example, and more recent revolvers similarly equipped. The Bianchi 209, for example, is an elastic style with a good rep and works with the Ruger style recoil shield.

The draw across the chest is very natural in the upside-down style. But generally it is only the spring styles that force this draw, across the chest, thus ensuring good retention; many of the elastic style made in the 60s and 70s require too little movement and one is essentially just dragging the revolver out of the mouth of the holster, rather than snapping it loose.

Red:

I have a 9R2 borrowed from a friend. I borrowed it to determine whether my Ruger SP101 3-inch would fit. When I found the Bianchi CD-125 for S&W 66s with 2.5-inch barrels fit the SP101 well, I wanted to take a look at the 9Rs - only the 9R2 accommodating short-barreled 66s.

To make a long story less long, the SP101 rests securely in the 9R2. Rather than wear it, which would involve adjusting its shoulder harness, my testing for how securely the revolver rests within 9R2 has been to insert empty SP101. Standing over a couch, I flung holster toward couch as vigorously as I could while jerking the harness. Twenty-five consecutive repetitions did not force the revolver from the holster. I could only remove the revolver by way of its break-front.

You have described a significant advantage for someone as thin as I am to acquire a 9R2. While my test demonstrated excellent security, what am I missing?

 

[NYlakesider]

I have a 9R2 and used it a lot in the 70s early 80s for my Model 60. Still have it and the 60.

Here are a couple things I think most miss when talking about this holster style.

It concealed well and as I was helping out a buddy at his speed shop garage I was working a lot on cars on lifts. You had to get down on hands and knees to set the lift pads and it was easy to show doing this. Not with that holster/gun. You also had to work with your hands held high for some work under the lift and with a short jacket or sweatshirt they rode up and your waist was exposed. Again the holster gun was unseen.

If worse came to worse a resonantly fast draw could be done with the off hand. I practiced that a bit.

 

[rednichols]

Red:

I have a 9R2 borrowed from a friend. I borrowed it to determine whether my Ruger SP101 3-inch would fit. When I found the Bianchi CD-125 for S&W 66s with 2.5-inch barrels fit the SP101 well, I wanted to take a look at the 9Rs - only the 9R2 accommodating short-barreled 66s.

To make a long story less long, the SP101 rests securely in the 9R2. Rather than wear it, which would involve adjusting its shoulder harness, my testing for how securely the revolver rests within 9R2 has been to insert empty SP101. Standing over a couch, I flung holster toward couch as vigorously as I could while jerking the harness. Twenty-five consecutive repetitions did not force the revolver from the holster. I could only remove the revolver by way of its break-front.

You have described a significant advantage for someone as thin as I am to acquire a 9R2. While my test demonstrated excellent security, what am I missing?

Pleasant surprise! The 9R2 'shouldn't' grip the Ruger properly because the internal recesses for the cylinder can't close; and on one side, press on the cylinder release latch. As long as the latter doesn't cause you troubles, the 'snap test' you performed is completely reliable. Apparently there is enough of the cylinder standing proud of the recoil shield, to retain.

 

[rednichols]

I have a 9R2 and used it a lot in the 70s early 80s for my Model 60. Still have it and the 60.

If worse came to worse a resonantly fast draw could be done with the off hand. I practiced that a bit.

In fact this draw method was promoted by Boothroyd to Ian Fleming when he first proposed the B-M to him. Works equally well worn crossdraw on the belt (same off-hand draw). Here's a pic of one of the founders wearing same (caption states Martin, I'm not convinced):



Jack Martin was a Chief Boatswain's (pronounced 'bosuns') Mate in the Navy, and John Berns a Yeoman in the Navy; according to Elmer Keith both were assigned to Alaska circa 1930 when they met and devised the Speed Holster for long-barrelled hunting revolvers to clear the snow there; Martin being the leatherworker. Berns stayed with the Navy as a Clerk and there is no proof the holsters were ever made by him or at his station in WA. On the other hand, there is a category of the Speed Holsters that is marked with individual letters, that don't state location. They are believed to be earliest production. These are uncommon and the holsters made by Jack Martin with Calhoun City on them, perhaps didn't begin production until the expiry of the second patent by E.E. Clark that is marked on the earliest: so, 1950 when Martin announced to Keith that the company was back in business.

With the patent issuing in 1935, the war starting in Europe in 1939, the war ending in 1945, the Clark patent expiring in 1949; and the announcement coming from Calhoun City, it's plausible. The origin of the Lightnin' holster is very unclear, though. It appears first in the Calhoun City catalogue and uses an entirely different spring -- a wire form vs a leaf as in the Speed Holster -- and construction is appropriately different. It has more in common with the Hoyt, which was copied by A.E. Nelson in WA as was the Lightnin'; and perhaps there was a relationship there. Hoyt moved to WA many years later (1980) so not relevant to B-M which despite being purchased from Martin in '63 doesn't appear to have survived much past Martin's death in '68.

 

[Triggernosis]

If one of you guys that own a 9r2 holster be willing to let me borrow one for a few days, I'll figure out a good knockoff of them and start making them.

 

[rednichols]

If one of you guys that own a 9r2 holster be willing to let me borrow one for a few days, I'll figure out a good knockoff of them and start making them.

Far be it from me, to enable someone to copy my inventions (again); nevertheless you'll need to completely disassemble a 9R2 to get it right. That spring is going to be expensive -- and there are several different size styles! Doubt you can make a buck that way.

 

[Triggernosis]

Red, I certainly meant no disrespect in attempting to copy your design. I figure that with so many years already under the bridge in holster manufacturing, there's not much new under the sun any more and it becomes simply the individual artistry, flair, and quality that differentiates holsters these days.
Also, if a particular holster design is no longer being manufactured, is it not fair game to reproduce it?

What is so fancy about that spring - is it more than simply a piece of spring steel strap bent around?

 

[YeshuaIsa53]

Carried a Charter Arms Bulldog for years like this. Elastic and fit were perfect and offered great retention. Years later, tried a 2 1/2" Model 19 dash something loaded with heavy hitters and felt it unsafe. It may have been fine, but when in doubt...

Some guns and holsters just don't go together. That is why they make a boat for everything, I reckon.

Best advantage for me was no weight on the hip, and fast access even while driving or sitting. I could point a gun very quickly with those holsters with great ease. Glad I never had to.

 

[Naphtali]

Pleasant surprise! The 9R2 'shouldn't' grip the Ruger properly because the internal recesses for the cylinder can't close; and on one side, press on the cylinder release latch. As long as the latter doesn't cause you troubles, the 'snap test' you performed is completely reliable. Apparently there is enough of the cylinder standing proud of the recoil shield, to retain.

Are revolver users who are not using spring-retain holsters paying attention? These holsters are unusually forgiving regarding what revolver(s) the holster accepts. Plus such holsters are exceptionally safe and secure without requiring safety devices.

I prefer Bianchi holsters because they work well, are durable, are reasonably priced for a used one, and the designer-developer of them is a member of the forum who is willing to share his knowledge.

Were you unable to acquire the Bianchi of your choice, acceptable back-up choices are holsters by Don Hume - because factory seconds are available on eBay for chump change.
***
Red:

Looking closely at the SP101's cylinder latch while revolver is in the 9R2, the latch is not being touched by leather. It's a close fit, but latch is free of contact.

 

[JayCeeNC]

If worse came to worse a resonantly fast draw could be done with the off hand. I practiced that a bit.

I've shown my early and somewhat rare (according to Red Nichols) Bianchi Model 9R in the past.
I wore it specifically when making drug arrests during buy-bust operations in a car; I could draw with my left hand, point my Model 38 across my body, and hold the bad guy at gunpoint. Nothing more awkward and dangerous than drawing with the right hand and trying to point the gun at a guy only a few inches away in the passenger seat.

 

[rednichols]

Red, I certainly meant no disrespect in attempting to copy your design. I figure that with so many years already under the bridge in holster manufacturing, there's not much new under the sun any more and it becomes simply the individual artistry, flair, and quality that differentiates holsters these days.
Also, if a particular holster design is no longer being manufactured, is it not fair game to reproduce it?

What is so fancy about that spring - is it more than simply a piece of spring steel strap bent around?

I was not offended . My designs have been copied steadily for 50 years. But even I don't copy my OLD designs; they were modern once but quite dated now. My Bogart range, created just five years ago, is about to be entirely replaced by a newly designed range.

The spring; well, take the holster apart and try to accurately imagine what it looked like before it was loaded into the holster (it's a torsion spring and can only be loaded once). If you can get that right, and then temper it so it maintains its strength for the next 40 years (like the one you took apart) then you'll have a winner. Then all you have to do is get that spring right every single time .

BTW, improperly tempered and/or coated wireforms break and the guns fall out. It's happened many, many times. I even emailed a seller on eBay with a 9R that had a broken spring. "It's a safety hazard". Chap sold it anyway, without updating the auction.

Reminds me of a tale, in which a youngie interviews for a job. "How can I get this job from you?". "You need good judgment". "How do I get good judgment?". "Experience". "How do I get experience?". "Bad judgement".

 

[rwsmith]

My Remora holster....

I have a Remora shoulder rig that has a large piece of velcro where you can stick the holster/gun in any position that suits you. I don't think this is exactly an 'upside down', but it pretty close and comfortable.

 

[The Big D]

Rarely use because...

...of two unfortunate (albeit funny!) experiences.

When a young LEO I routinely wore an upside down rig with a M60. The leather holster secured the gun with an elastic band at the bottom of the trigger guard. It did not secure very well witnesseth these two situations.

Was playing air hockey in a Brooklyn bar and the gun slipped out of the holster and skittered across the table. Quite embarrassing.

The second situation occurred at Pierce Street Annex in Fort Lauderdale. Was chatting up a young lady at the bar when the gun fell out of the holster, cartwheeled down the steps to the lower level, and came to rest under an occupied table. Even more embarrassing.

Eventually added a retaining strap to the holster and believe I gave it away later.

I now have another rig that seems much more secure. There is are no manufacture i.d. on it. It has not failed, but I am a very active person and it flops around too much for my taste. I do use it when driving long distances, however.

Be safe.

 

[rwsmith]

My body build....

What are advantages - if any - of shoulder holsters carrying small and medium framed revolvers upside down compared with more popular carries?

Must such shoulder holsters be of break-front pattern?

My body build dictates it. A lot of people said they are what they are cracked out to be on 'Dragnet' but I'm shaped like a funnel and can't keep my pants up without a holster. Also my hips are VERY high. A belt holster is fine as long as I don't walk anywhere.

The Remora has belt straps that actually help keep my pants in place.

I also have a 'Kangaroo' holster that rides well on my chest. It's elastic and very comfortable. It's touted as being used by sky marshals riding on long flights all day.