US Navy Victory - finish & stock questions

[cmansguns]

Hello forum;

I have a early Victory .38 Special, 4 inch, that seems all correct matching serial numbers barrel, butt, cylinder. Probably part of the early direct Navy contract per SCSW and Charlie Pate's great book.

I bought it as a shooter, not a collectible, as the grips are mid 1950's Target with "football" relief, and even though the lanyard hole is in the frame, it was missing the lanyard stud, pin, and loop.

Questions for the forum: The stocks are marked 357 (left panel only) but have years of stain and grunge so have been on a while. Does anyone know if the 357 is a date code? I don't see any other marks or stampings, the wood appears like Goncalo Alves. SCSW shows only an example that states (dated 1978) but I think footballs have been around longer than that.

Second question is about the finish...looks like Parkerizing, but is much "darker gray" than my Ithaca 1911A1 - 1943 (98%), also the finish is slightly "rough" to the touch. The good thing is that the finish is overall, even with stocks removed, showing no signs of "polishing" or underneath pitting, so I think it is original with holster high spot and muzzle tip shiny spots.

What do you think after seeing my (probably crappy) photos?

I had not planned any restoration at this point. It shoot great, feels good with these grips and for $268 cash and a very old Browning slab side Buckmark (maybe 60-70%) I felt the trade was advantage home team.

 

[Muss Muggins]

The finish appears to me to be an original Victory model finish, of which there were a couple. As for the stocks, others will be along that know more about those. All I know is they weren't shipped with the Victory.

 

[alwslate]

I have a US Navy marked Victory model. The dark finish is original and
was called "Black Magic" I think. The rough feel isn't really from the
finish but from the unpolished steel underneath. Your gun looks to be
in very good condition and doesn't need restoring. Any "restoration"
would reduce it's value considerably. The original grips would have
been the standard Victory model grips.

 

[Art Doc]

The Target stocks pictured were used 1968-1981. They appear to have been modified by having the relief made bigger. The original stocks were small service type in smooth walnut (awful for shooting).

I would shoot and enjoy this revolver. If you like the Targets it's your call. I prefer the Magnas because it allows the use of the lanyard ring which I think is cool. But that's me.

 

[Absalom]

The finish does look a bit odd, but the low resolution of your photos and the lighting makes a close examination difficult. It looks blacker as well as rougher textured, along the barrel especially, than it should be, but I'd almost suggest exposure to the elements of some sort rather than a re-finish. How "early" is early? S&W played around with a few different utility finishes before settling on the "Military Midnight Black" that became standard by about mid-1942 or so. DWalt knows more about these.

PS: Below is a comparison photo I took and posted in the Victory thread a while ago to illustrate the difference between true black parkerizing on a 1943 Colt Commando and the more greyish Midnight Black on a typical 1944 Victory; your Victory's coloring is closer to the Colt. But then again, lighting makes a lot of difference.

 

[cmansguns]

follow up on Navy Victory questions

Hello forum;

Wasn't able to get back on forum until now, but I did want to follow up on Absalom's question "how early" on my Navy Victory. The serial number is V 192216, matching on butt, cylinder, and barrel, no little "s" on sideplate so I presume this one never got the new hammer block, either during the war or after.

Charlie Pates book, pg. 143, indicates that a U.S. Navy (no other Ordnance marks) only was probably a direct contract and the way I read the page is that the first V marked Victory was April 1942 and evidently the last "US Navy" only contract was completed by December 31, 1942. Pate also references a V338275 with the Property of.... shipping in June of 1943, so again...I am surmising a 1942 shipment of my Victory. That is why I stated "early" in my OP.

I know most of my photos need much better light as the camera does a great job on all kinds of photos (people, landscapes, etc.) for my wife and others so I have to just get better (and start using a tripod) at lighting or take gun photos outdoors or something different.

In any event, I am enjoying the Victory with the Target stocks
someone before me installed so I thank all forum members for responding to the questions. I learn something new every single time I log onto the S & W forum.

 

[Muley Gil]

Natural, indirect light seems to be the best. I take a lot of my gun pics on the back porch, on top of the dryer.

 

[DWalt]

V192216 would indicate probable shipment in Dec 1942 to Jan 1943. It's difficult to be authoritative about the appearance of a phosphate finish, as it is somewhat porous and can absorb oil, bodily fluids, chemicals, etc. which will age differently, changing its appearance. A gun with a phosphate finish (any type of gun - phosphate finishes were commonly used for most U. S. military small arms) may look different depending upon how much it was used and in what environment. There were also variations in the chemical composition of phosphate chemical baths used which would also affect appearance.

The use of the U.S. NAVY topstrap stamping ended in the mid V26xxxx range, around mid-1943. It would be unusual (and suspicious) to find a Navy stamping on any Victory over about SN V266xxx - V267xxx. The majority of .38 Special Victories made for the U. S. military went to the Navy, whether Navy-stamped or not.

 

[murphydog]

Good comments above.

It is likely the stock panel was ink-stamped "KT-357", for K frame Target stocks meant for a model 19.

Enjoy!

 

[opoefc]

I agree with Alan, the stocks are for a Model 19. Ed.