US Spitfire Operations

THE PILGRIM

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In WWII many natiions flew the magnificent Spitfire and that includes the US.
The first Americans to fly the Spitfire were the Eagle Squadrons.
They were Americans flying in the RAF before our entry into the war.
Then after Pearl Harbor, we sent two fighter Groups to England.
They were equipped with the P-39 which the Brits had already evaluated and deemed unfit to face the Luftwaffe.
This Dog won’t hunt!
So those two Units were re-equipped with the Spitfire.
Later, two additional Groups were Spitfire equipped.
This brings us down to what I think is the most unusual US Spitfire operations.
That would be the US Navy.
The Navy needed airborne artillery observers to support the DDay landings.
They had learned the hard way in the Mediterranean that the standard Navy observation planes were easy prey to the Germans.
So it was decided that the Navy would fly Spitfires on DDay.

http://spitfiresite.com/2010/04/spitfires-of-the-us-navy.html

VOS-7 - Wikipedia
 
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I'm going to read those links, but inasmuch as the Navy had Hellcats and used them in the invasion of southern France, why not use them instead of Spitfires in Normandy? They had a much longer range, useful for observation planes.

BTW, I read a book by a USAAF pilot who flew MK V and MK IX Spits in the Med. and Italy until his squadron got Mustangs. I wish I could recall the the author's name or the book.

Many of you have seen the photo of the MK V (?) Spitfire in US markings shot down at Anzio. It's lying in the surf with USN sailors keeping watch. I think the pilot was rescued. Note that a sailor has a Garand rifle. I guess they were by then well distributed. I was mildly surprised that our Navy in 1943 wasn't still using Springfields.

BTW, in southern France, there was concern that Hellcats would be mistaken for FW-190's and fired on by Allied forces.

I can believe it. On Guadalcanal, USN fighters attacked P-40's, although the New Zealanders there painted the rear half of their fuselages white to make it clear that they were Allied planes!
 
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BTW, I read a book by a USAAF pilot who flew MK V and MK IX Spits in the Med. and Italy until his squadron got Mustangs. I wish I could recall the the author's name or the book.

Bob Hoover flew the Spitfire Mk Vc with the 352nd, and as I recall he wrote about it in his biography "Forever Flying".

I *think* he also stated that the Mk V was his favorite aircraft because you could give it full throttle and put it into any attitude without breaking it. I've read similar comments from pilots who flew other Spitfire variants. The Mk V was developed quickly as interim stop gap design until the Mk III, with a redesigned fuselage was developed for the Merlin XX engine. As such the Mk V had the same airframe as the Mk I and II, just with the Merlin 45 engine. However, it was very successful. It also resulted in another stop gap design when the Mk Vs were slightly modified to take the Merlin 60 to create the Mk IV, while the Mk VIII was being developed.

The MK V's were then converted to LF Mk V configuration with Merlin 45M, 50M and 55M engines, which were optimized for maximum power at low altitudes, and had the rounded wing tips removed to reduce the span and improve roll rate. The result was a fighter that was as fast as the FW-190 and faster than the Bf-109G at low altitudes. The Mk V had been the first Spitfire to have external fuel tanks in both 30 and 80 gallon sizes, and this was important on the LF Mk V as well as the extra fuel allowed them to maintain a higher cruise speed in the combat area, which made them less vulnerable to being bounced. In this configuration they remained in front line service until late 1944.

That's amazing when you consider the same basic Mk I airframe was used from 1939 all the way through late 1944 in the Mk V form and throughout the war in the form of the Mk IX.
 
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Note that a sailor has a Garand rifle. I guess they were by then well distributed. I was mildly surprised that our Navy in 1943 wasn't still using Springfields.

HQ USN prob decided to give them out to the shipboard guys first, Shore Patrol second, to Regular Marines third and the Raider Battalions fourth.:D
 
Bob Hoover flew the Spitfire Mk Vc with the 352nd, and as I recall he wrote about it in his biography "Forever Flying".

I *think* he also stated that the Mk V was his favorite aircraft because you could give it full throttle and put it into any attitude without breaking it. I've read similar comments from pilots who flew other Spitfire variants. The Mk V was developed quickly as interim stop gap design until the Mk III, with a redesigned fuselage was developed for the Merlin XX engine. As such the Mk V had the same airframe as the Mk I and II, just with the Merlin 45 engine. However, it was very successful. It also resulted in another stop gap design when the Mk Vs were slightly modified to take the Merlin 60 to create the Mk IV, while the Mk VIII was being developed.

The MK V's were then converted to LF Mk V configuration with Merlin 45M, 50M and 55M engines, which were optimized for maximum power at low altitudes, and had the rounded wing tips removed to reduce the span and improve roll rate. The result was a fighter that was as fast as the FW-190 and faster than the Bf-109G at low altitudes. The Mk V had been the first Spitfire to have external fuel tanks in both 30 and 80 gallon sizes, and this was important on the LF Mk V as well as the extra fuel allowed them to maintain a higher cruise speed in the combat area, which made them less vulnerable to being bounced. In this configuration they remained in front line service until late 1944.

That's amazing when you consider the same basic Mk I airframe was used from 1939 all the way through late 1944 in the Mk V form and throughout the war in the form of the Mk IX.

You wrote MK IV where you mean MK IX. That was the Mark developed to fill in as the more advanced MK VIII was completed.

As it happened, MK IX was very well distributed, with the eventual MK VIII used primarily over Italy and in the Far East, where it was a very dangerous foe to the Japanese.
 
.... inasmuch as the Navy had Hellcats and used them in the invasion of southern France, why not use them instead of Spitfires in Normandy? ...
The fleet fighter squadrons probably didn't want to give them up, just to see them used for artillery spotting. I'm guessing there weren't a lot of "extra" Hellcats in the ETO, whereas by 1944 there would of been quantities of otherwise untasked Spitfires the could be made available.
 
HQ USN prob decided to give them out to the shipboard guys first, Shore Patrol second, to Regular Marines third and the Raider Battalions fourth.:D

Remember that the Navy didn’t “give out” individual small arms to Navy personnel. Marine infantry would be the only ones aboard a ship actually having an issued weapon. Even aviators (officers) on carriers drew a sidearm (Victory) before a mission and turned it back in afterwards.

So what rifle a sailor sent ashore in the Med would carry depended on what his ship had in its armory, and that likely depended on when the ship had last been reprovisioned and left a US Navy yard.
 
You wrote MK IV where you mean MK IX. That was the Mark developed to fill in as the more advanced MK VIII was completed.

As it happened, MK IX was very well distributed, with the eventual MK VIII used primarily over Italy and in the Far East, where it was a very dangerous foe to the Japanese.
That's correct. I get a little dyslexic when I'm tired.

The only "Mk IV" Spitfire the PR Mk 1 Type D, which was a long range photo recon variant, with an integral leading edge wing tank, and (initially) a 29 gallon fuselage tank behind the pilot. Like the P-51 B through K variants that fuselage tank moved the center of gravity so far aft that the aircraft was difficult to maneuver safely until most of the fuel in it was used. Unlike the P-51, it was deleted from the later Type Ds, and the type was renamed the PR Mk IV. This also made sense as it had a Merlin 45 engine in it, like the Mk V.

The Mk VI and VII were high altitude fighters with pressurized cockpits. Both were based on the Mk V, with cockpit pressurization. The Mk VI was less developed interim design using a Merlin 47 with a single stage supercharger adapted for high altitude. The Mk VII, like the Mk VIII was intended as a high altitude replacement for the Mk V, and it used the same Merlin 61 as the interim Mk IX. However the Mk IX itself was nearly as capable as the Mk VII, so only 140 Mk VIIs were ever made. One of them was shipped directly to the US for evaluation purposes and now sits in the Smithsonian Air and Space Museum.

The Mk VIII was essentially a Merlin 61 powered Mk VII without the pressurized cockpit or extended wing tips (although there were also HF Mk VIIIs produced as well with the Merlin 70 and extended tips, as well as an LF variant with square tips and a Merlin 66).

The Mk VII and Mk VIII had a stronger fuselage than the MK V to accommodate the two stage supercharged Merlin 61. They also had a retractable tailwheel and a taller, pointed vertical stabilizer. The cut down rear fuselage was introduced during Mk VIII production, which then also appeared in the later Mk IX as well as on the Griffon powered Mk XIV.

The Mk XIV as in fact based on the late production Mk VIII fuselage further adapted for the larger and heavier Griffon engine.

Nearly all sources mention the A, B, C and E wings which differed primarily in their armament. The A wing had eight .303s, the B wing had two 20mm cannon with 60 rounds per gun, and four 303s, C wing or “universal” wing could take eight .303in machine guns, or four 20mm cannon, or two 20mm cannon with 120 rounds per gun and four machine guns, plus a 250 pound bomb under each wing, or a 500 pound bomb under the fuselage. The D wing as mentioned previously was intended for the long range PR variants, and as such had no armament and an integral leading edge wing tank. The E wing was a revised universal wing that carried two 20 mm cannon in each wing, mounted outboard rather than inboard as on the B and C wings, and also had two .50 caliber machine guns. The outboard cannon placement made more room for the .50 BMG ammunition, and also spread the stresses out over the wing better, separating the cannon from the underwing hard points for the bombs.

Nearly all sources also mention the Merlin and Griffon engine variants, but few mention the significant differences in supercharging for the L, F and HF variants, the use of single stage, two stage, and two stage-two speed superchargers on various engine marks, and the differences impeller sizes on superchargers designed for optimum performance at different altitudes, and most sources don't make the point that there were in essence only two major fuselage designs through out Spitfire production.

The also don't point out that from a pure handling perspective, the Mk V was arguably the sweet spot, with a near perfect blend of power and handling. The later Spitfires had more power and greater performance, but it came at the expense of greater weight and somewhat reduced maneuverability.

Most sources also do not directly state that the British did not regard airframes as throw away items, as did the US. Mk Is were reworked to Mk II status, many surviving Mk II airframes were reworked to Mk V status and many surviving Mk V airframes were reworked to Mk IX status, with a handful of Mk Vs being converted to Mk VI status. In other words, significant parts of a pre-war Mk I fuselage theoretically could have flown through the entire war with the fuselage being upgraded to Mk V and eventually Mk IX status, with a new C or E wing being installed in the Mk V or MK IX stage of the process. That just didn't happen in the US.
 
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Absalom,

FWIW my post was meant to lampoon the often incrutible actions of higher command.

Thank you for pointing out there are most often perfectly logical reasons for what those on the ground see as inexplicable.
 
That's because the US didn't have to reutilize old airframes, but the British did. War Weary aircraft in the US military were used for parts, training, or in some cases used for other duties.

For example, the Dauntless flew off of escort carriers until the end of the war even though they had been replaced by Curtiss Helldiver II on fleet carriers.

Even planes unsuccessful for their intended programs, like the B23 Dragon, were used for various purposes during and after the war.

BTW, there were more Hawker Hurricanes in the Battle of Britain than Spitfires. Although not flown by US pilots (that I know of), it was used by various air forces and flew throughout the war. As did the P40, although it was far from cutting edge when the US entered the war.

Certain planes in WW II get a lot of attention, well deserved. Still, some of the lessor known air planes served well, even if not in the role for which they were originally designed. The P 39 is a prime example of that.

Most sources also do not directly state that the British did not regard airframes as throw away items, as did the US. Mk Is were reworked to Mk II status, many surviving Mk II airframes were reworked to Mk V status and many surviving Mk V airframes were reworked to Mk IX status, with a handful of Mk Vs being converted to Mk VI status. In other words, significant parts of a pre-war Mk I fuselage theoretically could have flown through the entire war with the fuselage being upgraded to Mk V and eventually Mk IX status, with a new C or E wing being installed in the Mk V or MK IX stage of the process. That just didn't happen in the US.
 
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