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USAF F-4 Phantom II Thunderbirds B-roll
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They only used the Phantom for four years as they proved expensive to operate compared to other aircraft in the inventory. While I love the Phantom it was, according to engineers, one design compromise after another necessary to accommodate those engines.
My neighbor, when I lived near Ft. Worth, was a full-time active duty reserve F-14 driver/instructor just before they were phased out. He had an aerospace engineering degree from Oklahoma State University and claimed the Phantom was proof you could make a refrigerator fly with sufficient thrust.
Bryan
My neighbor, when I lived near Ft. Worth, was a full-time active duty reserve F-14 driver/instructor just before they were phased out. He had an aerospace engineering degree from Oklahoma State University and claimed the Phantom was proof you could make a refrigerator fly with sufficient thrust.
Bryan
In spite of their pit falls I enjoy seeing the F-4's. Five years working on them. My sergeant called them (among other things I cannot print), "bent winged bug suckers" and "pigs in space" lol.
My Dad flew RF-4C in southeast asia, got to see the Thunderbirds fly F-4s a couple times. Even saw one crash land at a show, pilot ejected and was OK.
While there have been far better airframes since, it managed to bring my Dad and many others home in one piece.
Great video, thanks for posting.
While there have been far better airframes since, it managed to bring my Dad and many others home in one piece.
Great video, thanks for posting.
I flew the F-4C/D during the Vietnam "conflict" (Johnson & McNamara liked to call it a "conflict" but those of us who flew and risked our lives every day knew better - it was an all out WAR!) out of Thailand during Operation Rolling Thunder back in the late '60s. Also flew the F-100D/F out of South Vietnam (and other fighter aircraft) but the F-4 was my favorite jet. I even got to join the Mach 2 Club when I took her to twice the speed of sound out over the southern CA desert while training in the F-4 RTU at George AFB, CA. Those early J-79s left a long black trail of smoke once we came out of AB which made her easy to see by the North Vietnamese MiG 21 pilots who we tangled with on nearly every mission up over the North.
Those were the good 'ole days! I still get an adrenalin rush these days when I see videos of the Phantom in flight and, yes, those engines could make a Peterbilt fly on raw thrust alone!
Those were the good 'ole days! I still get an adrenalin rush these days when I see videos of the Phantom in flight and, yes, those engines could make a Peterbilt fly on raw thrust alone!
That big thing must have worked the pilots' buns off. I read the demonstration teams had to preload the stick with 40 lbs nose down to provide more precise control for tight formation flying with less stick movement. Imagine your arm pulling 40 lbs or more constantly, plus g forces, for about a one hour demonstration. They were pre-fly-by-wire, so pilots had to provide all control inputs directly with no computer stability assistance. Did you notice how much they were wallowing about in tight formation, and how much the elevons were dithering?
I would imagine the transition to T-38's and A-4's were a welcome change for the teams.
I would imagine the transition to T-38's and A-4's were a welcome change for the teams.
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BillyMagg
Member
Don't forget the F-105
Actually, we would have to give the F-105 the "least impressive" Thunderbird mount. They came out of the F-100 into the 105 for maybe a few practices/demo's? no soap, no 105 for the T-Birds??
So back into a later F-100, I actually saw the T-Birds flying the F-100's twice,, I think both airframes, as I recall the F-100 was a pretty good airshow bird...
I was very impressed when the Blues brought the F-4 to Little Rock AFB, I think in 70 for Armed Forces Day?? Such a gorgeous airplane, and I remember the Crew Chiefs spit and polishing those chicks with a spray bottle of something kool.
During that airshow the C-130 E's performed a RATO take off and a LAPES drop. Now I can't imagine that airshow without the F-101 Wonder's of the Arkansas Air National Guard doing some fast passes and maybe even a 4 ship formation?? I vividly remember the RATO and the LAPES.
I've come to appreciate the F-4 more and more as the years go by, what a big beautiful fighter aircraft.
Actually, we would have to give the F-105 the "least impressive" Thunderbird mount. They came out of the F-100 into the 105 for maybe a few practices/demo's? no soap, no 105 for the T-Birds??
So back into a later F-100, I actually saw the T-Birds flying the F-100's twice,, I think both airframes, as I recall the F-100 was a pretty good airshow bird...
I was very impressed when the Blues brought the F-4 to Little Rock AFB, I think in 70 for Armed Forces Day?? Such a gorgeous airplane, and I remember the Crew Chiefs spit and polishing those chicks with a spray bottle of something kool.
During that airshow the C-130 E's performed a RATO take off and a LAPES drop. Now I can't imagine that airshow without the F-101 Wonder's of the Arkansas Air National Guard doing some fast passes and maybe even a 4 ship formation?? I vividly remember the RATO and the LAPES.
I've come to appreciate the F-4 more and more as the years go by, what a big beautiful fighter aircraft.
Those were the days of real performances
I saw the Thunderbirds fly the F-4s at Keesler AFB in '71 & it's my most cherished memory of all of the Thunderbird performances I saw.
I was watching at the golf course by the edge of the lake when one F-4 came in crazy low (& crazy close) swooping across the lake & pulled up hard just before he got to the golf course.
I vividly remember that black jet smoke rolling around on the putting greens as the F-4's nose looked skyward & then rocketed away.
The roar of the engines, the smell, the smoke, it was AWESOME!
.
I saw the Thunderbirds fly the F-4s at Keesler AFB in '71 & it's my most cherished memory of all of the Thunderbird performances I saw.
I was watching at the golf course by the edge of the lake when one F-4 came in crazy low (& crazy close) swooping across the lake & pulled up hard just before he got to the golf course.
I vividly remember that black jet smoke rolling around on the putting greens as the F-4's nose looked skyward & then rocketed away.
The roar of the engines, the smell, the smoke, it was AWESOME!
.
Actually, the F-4 was an easy jet to fly in formation - very stable while on the wing. Those bent - up wingtips seemed to give her a lot of stability in the roll & pitch axes which aided in remaining in close fingertip formation. Ditto for staying on the tanker boom during air refueling. I don't recall having 40# of downstick force when I flew them. Maybe that was after I flew them - I don't know.
The jet was so responsive in the pitch mode that, on takeoff, we held the stick full aft (nose up) until about 150 knots then gradually moved the stick to neutral and slightly aft to rotate the nose to the takeoff/climb attitude. This was done to keep from dragging the stabilator on the runway and grinding about a foot of it off as happened in the early years of flying the jet. At full aileron deflection, she'd snap roll at 720 degrees per second (2 complete turns about the horizontal axis) which was enough to completely disorient the pilot if he tried it. We didn't like doing that and used that maneuver only as a demonstration when a pilot was transitioning to the Phantom. The aircraft needed 10,000 feet from the start altitude to do a symmetrical vertical loop if done properly.
When I came back from SEA, I did a 2-year stint at Nellis AFB, NV as an instructor in the USAF Fighter Weapons School as an Aggressor Pilot in the T-38A & the F-5A where we flew as "enemy" fighter pilots against active duty USAF, USAFR and ANG pilots in whatever jets their units were flying at the time. Most of the pilots at the school were recent SEA returnees who flew the F-4, F-105 and the F-100 in combat. We taught those guys a lot about how to not get shot down from what we learned in actual air-to-air combat over North Vietnam, Laos, Thailand and Cambodia.
Exciting times those were, indeed!
The jet was so responsive in the pitch mode that, on takeoff, we held the stick full aft (nose up) until about 150 knots then gradually moved the stick to neutral and slightly aft to rotate the nose to the takeoff/climb attitude. This was done to keep from dragging the stabilator on the runway and grinding about a foot of it off as happened in the early years of flying the jet. At full aileron deflection, she'd snap roll at 720 degrees per second (2 complete turns about the horizontal axis) which was enough to completely disorient the pilot if he tried it. We didn't like doing that and used that maneuver only as a demonstration when a pilot was transitioning to the Phantom. The aircraft needed 10,000 feet from the start altitude to do a symmetrical vertical loop if done properly.
When I came back from SEA, I did a 2-year stint at Nellis AFB, NV as an instructor in the USAF Fighter Weapons School as an Aggressor Pilot in the T-38A & the F-5A where we flew as "enemy" fighter pilots against active duty USAF, USAFR and ANG pilots in whatever jets their units were flying at the time. Most of the pilots at the school were recent SEA returnees who flew the F-4, F-105 and the F-100 in combat. We taught those guys a lot about how to not get shot down from what we learned in actual air-to-air combat over North Vietnam, Laos, Thailand and Cambodia.
Exciting times those were, indeed!
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Hair Trigger
US Veteran
They flew it a year less than the Blue Angels did and both teams were using it at the same time 1969-73 for the T-Birds, 1969-1974 for the Angels, the only time the two teams used the same type aircraft. I've seen shows of both teams in the Phantom, and have seen the BA's in the F-11F, F-4, A-4 and F/A-18. I've seen the T-Birds in the F-4 and F-16. The Phantom was my favorite of all of them, even though it was probably the least maneuverable of the bunch. It sure was the loudest, though.
I read an article once that mentioned they (T-Birds) could do a whole show with 6 T-34's on the amount of fuel that one Phantom burned during a show.
LostintheOzone
US Veteran
F-4 was the hammer when I was in the Navy. I had the crash/rescue runway duty for a Blue Angles show at NAS Saufley Field, Pensacola, 69 maybe. An afterburner take off would make a coffee cup dance across the dash of the crash truck like a ballerina.
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I worked out of the Weapons Release shop on the F-4's (349th MMS)...At 6' 4 1/2" i didn't relish the idea of R&R'ing missile launchers while half-squatting - half-kneeling under them, but I still feel it's the finest multi-purpose combat airframe in US history......Ben
...Ben
I never worked on the Phantom, but they were being phased in while I was in. The "talk" was that it was a bundle of compromises, as it had to "fit" the needs of Navy, Air Force, Marines, etc. Specific needs not necessarily needed by the other services. I was an engine tech, and would have liked to have dived deep into those J79"s to see what make them tick.
I never flew one, never worked on one. But I did have the occasion to call upon them a time or two while in II Corp in Vietnam. When needed, I thought they were the most beautiful aircraft i have ever seen. They sure could make some noise and light up the landscape. For those of you that did fly and maintain them, I salute you.
Hair Trigger
US Veteran
I've not read about what the Thunderbirds do for close-in control, but the Blue Angels do not wear G-suits during demonstration flights. To maintain the fine control required for close formations, they add a spring to the stick that takes about 30 lb of back force to hold the plane straight and level. They rest their stick arm on their thigh for steadiness. They don't wear the G-suits because the inflation of the leg bladders during hi-G maneuvers would move their control stick arm.
