Used Performance Center Semi-auto Values

[harwood8330]

Good afternoon all,

I am interested in purchasing several Performance Center variations such as the Recons and Shortys. My go to source for ball park values has been Blue Book of Gun Values and Standard Catalog of Smith and Wesson. However, the Performance Center guns haven't had much info or used prices. Anyone have an additional source that may provide production numbers, values, background info etc.? Also, do the models issued to Lew Horton bring higher values than the other dealers such as RSR, Camfour or Talo?

Thanks!

 

[James&theGiant1911]

Lew Horton is a distributor, as anything the guns you are talking about sell all over the map. The biggest determining factors to me have seem to be the strength of the decal conditions. For example, I have seen Shorty 40 mk3, sell for $700-850 for beaters but I have also seen them go as high as $1850-2000 for pristine models.

It is similar to coins, watches and cars. Condition determines value, and the better the condition the better the value.

 

[03Fatboy]

You can look at closed auctions for a starting price point.

 

[Sevens]

Simply must know going in that it's a VERY fluid market. The sources you have listed are phenomenal when it comes to identification and in some cases, finding details that matter such as possible production numbers and original MSRP. Again -- incredibly fantastic resources in that manner.

However!
Those same resources? As actual PRICE guides -- ummm, price guides here in the Spring if 2016? Honestly -- those are almost worse than having NO other source.

Not trying to be funny or mean. But to be clear, printed price guides don't reflect reality, not in the age of the internet.

Gunbroker is not the definitive answer, but it is almost without argument the largest, active market. Gunbroker will offer the MOST data points and examples of real-world transactions. Beware that crazy, nutty, unrealistic things certainly also happen on Gunbroker. Sometimes that seems (too) often.

 

[Sevens]

I re-read your post and it seems that you are asking MORE about info as much as a way to price these fine pistols.

The Standard Catalog of S&W -- FOURTH Edition is actually in the printing stage right now for what we hope is a summer release. In fact, you can pre-order it (at discount!) on Amazon right now.

Will the awesome SCSW have updated PC pistol information in the new Fourth Edition?! I don't know. But I sure hope so as these pistols are my passion also.

 

[harwood8330]

Thanks to everyone... I really appreciate your time and thoughts!

 

[vigil617]

My two cents' worth, harwood:

You've been a member here for quite a while, apparently, but if you haven't spent a lot of time reading the extremely informative threads and watching the sales on this Forum, you will find that there is excellent reference material right here.

I have found that the prices asked and offered for Smith & Wesson handguns here on this site are overwhelmingly fair and, to the extent that it's possible to gauge such a fluid commodity, reflect "true" market value.

The only downside is that you might not be able to find recent sales on a particular model, but even so, reading threads about the model will often reveal discussions of what they are worth.

An excellent case in point, from my own very recent experience:

A very desirable, low production quantity 45ACP semi-auto showed up on Gunbroker with no reserve. I would love to own it, but I had no idea of what a fair price would be. Reading several threads about it right here, I found where a member whose opinions I value and trust had talked about that very model not long ago.

That member opined that one of these in excellent though fired condition was worth $850 to $1000. Seemed right to me, and I set my personal limit at $950. The gun sold for $1,075, which is (I think) right in line; I just wasn't prepared to go to that point.

People who sell guns here are, I think, those who genuinely want them to stay "in the family" and for other S&W enthusiasts to have them. For that reason, prices are usually set where informed, knowledgeable buyers and sellers will find common ground.

If I really "need" to sell a gun for the most I can get, I go to gunbroker for whatever deep-pockets buyer I can find. On the other hand, if I want to let go of a gun but want a friend to have it, I sell it here.

 

[Erich]

I just wanted to compliment you all on putting up such well considered posts. I don't believe a person could find a better discussion of the issue.

 

[James&theGiant1911]

I do not know, I tried to sell a 3913 tsw here for a grand less than one just like it brought on GA a few months before. You would have thought I was trying to rob people. It turned into a flame fest and resulted in multiple bans and comments being deleted. Granted I do not think it was forum regulars as they would not comment on the price but move on and not comment. However, after that episode I think I will be going straight to GA or GB with all the pieces I want to sell in the future.

 

[Sevens]

Sounds like an odd, isolated incident and certainly not a PC gun.

 

[clang444]

I do not know, I tried to sell a 3913 tsw here for a grand less than one just like it brought on GA a few months before. You would have thought I was trying to rob people. It turned into a flame fest and resulted in multiple bans and comments being deleted. Granted I do not think it was forum regulars as they would not comment on the price but move on and not comment. However, after that episode I think I will be going straight to GA or GB with all the pieces I want to sell in the future.

3913 TSWs go for how much? They aren't even PC guns.

TSW guns are in the $500 -$800 range around here.

PC guns are generally in tbe $1,000 - $2,400 range.

Neither are that easy to find, so if you've got to have it now you can certainly pay more.

 

[ericlw]

If you can get a sw 45cqb those are pretty rare. Im still looking for a dual tone to go along with my all black one.someone here used to have the prototype.

 

[James&theGiant1911]

3913 TSWs go for how much? They aren't even PC guns.

TSW guns are in the $500 -$800 range around here.

PC guns are generally in tbe $1,000 - $2,400 range.

Neither are that easy to find, so if you've got to have it now you can certainly pay more.

I saw a primo 3913tsw go for 1250 so it was not over a grand but 100 bucks less than that. I have also seen a shorty 40 bring 1850 - 2200.

 

[Sevens]

As I said above -- it's prudent to keep in mind that sometimes, craziness happens on Gunbroker. It is real, I am not saying those prices didn't happen, but I am saying it's can be counter-productive to let the crazy example skew the larger picture of reality.

Case in point, March-2015 on Gunbroker and a 952-2 6" Long Slide. Final bid: $6,525 and I screen-shotted it as proof. Searching Gunbroker will not show it as they evaporate in about 2 months.

Real price, real sale. It takes three people -- one guy with a gun and two energetic bidders who really want it.

FACT is, that happened but a 952-2 6" Long Slide is currently NOT a $6,500 pistol. There are two available right this moment, the cheaper one for $5,700. The more expensive one also available now has been live and ready to buy for more than one full year. Literally has been live for 54 weeks.

But alas, I have posted about this before. I suppose it's because I find it entertaining... but it is a fine example just the same.

An incident of excitable lunacy on Gunbroker may be real and truth -- but it does NOT make the market. It's merely another single data point.

 

[TTSH]

I do not know, I tried to sell a 3913 tsw here for a grand less than one just like it brought on GA a few months before. You would have thought I was trying to rob people. It turned into a flame fest and resulted in multiple bans and comments being deleted. Granted I do not think it was forum regulars as they would not comment on the price but move on and not comment. However, after that episode I think I will be going straight to GA or GB with all the pieces I want to sell in the future.

I don't want any of us to have to relive that awful thread. I'll be polite and just say that it was not the best conceived approach to actually sell a "pre-rail" Model 3913TSW. In fact, I believe you made the point that it was just a feeler ad and that you really weren't all that serious about selling it in the first place. Those are the kinds of posts that bring out the nuts and the very worst in people.

In your situation, if you were really serious about selling it for top dollar, you should have gone straight to GB. That's what I would have done. I'll be in a similar situation later this year on a Colt I own and I see no point in messing around. If you want or need top dollar for a rare gun, GB is your marketplace.

 

[vigil617]

+1 to the posts about Gunbroker as a barometer, not a thermometer, of the market. One of the reasons I enjoy the site so much is watching some of the items selling for previously unheard-of prices. Just this week, a NIB Shorty 45 Mk II went for over $2,000. Will this set a new bar for that model? I don't know, but it's fascinating to watch.

Performance Center guns such as the one the OP asked about -- especially those in limited runs (the Shorty 45 MkII was 179 pieces, IIRC) -- are both uncommon and exciting to see when they do come on the market, especially NIB with all that came with them.

 

[18DAI]

ericlw That would be me who owns the black PC 45CQB Prototype. When I sell it, it will be on Gunbroker. I am not a non-profit and will be taking full advantage of the craziness that happens on that site.

Having the copy of the American Handgunner magazine it appeared in with it, is better than a Jinks letter. Regards 18DAI

 

[James&theGiant1911]

I don't want any of us to have to relive that awful thread. I'll be polite and just say that it was not the best conceived approach to actually sell a "pre-rail" Model 3913TSW. In fact, I believe you made the point that it was just a feeler ad and that you really weren't all that serious about selling it in the first place. Those are the kinds of posts that bring out the nuts and the very worst in people.

In your situation, if you were really serious about selling it for top dollar, you should have gone straight to GB. That's what I would have done. I'll be in a similar situation later this year on a Colt I own and I see no point in messing around. If you want or need top dollar for a rare gun, GB is your marketplace.

Just 2 months prior a pre rail 3913 TSW went for 1250 + FFL fee on GA. I do not know if it was a one time thing but it sold for that so I thought I would send out feelers here for it. I should have threw it on GA with a 1250 reserve and see if it could have been repeated.

Finding 95-99 percent 3913 tacticals are not easy to do, today. Most in the 500-800 dollar range have huge holster wear and faded rubbed off decals.

 

[vigil617]

Just 2 months prior a pre rail 3913 TSW went for 1250 + FFL fee on GA. I do not know if it was a one time thing but it sold for that so I thought I would send out feelers here for it. I should have threw it on GA with a 1250 reserve and see if it could have been repeated.

Finding 95-99 percent 3913 tacticals are not easy to do, today. Most in the 500-800 dollar range have huge holster wear and faded rubbed off decals.

Not to argue with you, but just this week, a very nice example 3913TSW pre-rail that was listed on a couple of sites (not GB) sold within a day or two for $750. One of our members here bought it, and he got a heckuva good buy. Only reason I didn't go for it is because I don't have any 9mm stuff -- but I still gave it a thought....

 

[James&theGiant1911]

Not to argue with you, but just this week, a very nice example 3913TSW pre-rail that was listed on a couple of sites (not GB) sold within a day or two for $750. One of our members here bought it, and he got a heckuva good buy. Only reason I didn't go for it is because I don't have any 9mm stuff -- but I still gave it a thought....

I said it could have been a one time thing, two bidders in a bidding war for that one piece that pops up from time to time. 750 is not a bad deal, but it is my gun and I can not speak for the others but it has everything it came from the factory with. It is complete with the separate magazine bump stops and all.

If I cared I would or wanted to sell it then I would have just threw it on GA with a 1250 reserve and seen if it could have been repeated. I figure offering it here for 100 dollars less was a good thing since this is an enthusiast forum. Instead it turned into a complaint fest and I never even rechecked the thread or responded to anything. Since all offers and comments were deleted before I received them.

I can not speak for other peoples 3913s but this one is special. I would imagine 1 out of 100 pieces in the top 1-2 percent for all 3913 tsws out there. It is brand new in box and is not a 700-800 piece in my opinion. If it was not perfect then I would not have put that price on it. It is a gun case piece which I do not shoot. It is meant to stay that way as normal worn out pieces continue to sell for 500-800 bucks.

If condition is truly a barometer for gun values then anyone would be a fool to sell a brand new piece for a used piece. There is not one 3913 tsw for sale on GA or GB at the moment. Most are rail guns, and most are very used for your 700 dollar price tag. A lot of times you can not even read the tactical decals on the side slide.