UZI QUESTION

[DOEBOY1]

I have tried several times to access the uzi talk forum but can't post yet so I was hoping some of you will be able to answer. I have the oppertunity to purchase one of two uzi's. One is an imi that shoots from an open bolt position and the other is a norinco that shoots from a closed bolt. there is a difference of $300. I have researched the vector arms and have access to that also but the open bolt of the imi has more appeal. Of the three the vetor arms is cheaper. Those of you in the know which would you choose and why?

 

[perrazi]

if it doesn't say israel on the gun it isn't the real deal. i would go for the imi gun personally.had a std size and a mini sized. never a bit of trouble with either of them and they went through thousands of rds over a 3-4 yrs period.

 

[chud333]

if it doesn't say israel on the gun it isn't the real deal. i would go for the imi gun personally.had a std size and a mini sized. never a bit of trouble with either of them and they went through thousands of rds over a 3-4 yrs period.

Agree with this-----
Stick with the IMI weapons. The Israelis invented this weapon and they know how to build Uzi's. That's just MHO.

Chuck

 

[DOEBOY1]

The imi is $1200 the norinco is $900 and the vector arms is $815. What about the open bolt feature of the imi. Is that a feature that will increase the value of it later? How bout the adaptability to use caliber conversion kits like the 45 and 22?

 

[mc5aw]

For Uzis, you go Israeli or go home with a knock-off piece of junk. Whatever one you settle on, make sure you're legal with it. Remember, Uzis are bad bad bad bad bad ...

 

[jag312]

Semiauto Uzis were always closed bolt. If there is an open bolt feature, then it was done afterwards. Also, does the open bolt have a slot on the side? The Uzi open bolts with a slot have been classified by ATF as a part designed and intended to convert a firearm to a machinegun. When a semiauto Uzi has been converted to fire from the open bolt position, then it is a simple modification to complete the conversion to make it fire more than one shot by a single function of the trigger.

I wouldn't touch it, even if it was being given away.

 

[DOEBOY1]

Is the slot in the bolt intended to bypass the block on the receiver? I had a norinco several years ago and when the new wore off I traded it for some boot and a 30 carbine. Now I need a companion for the mac10. I don't for see keeping it forever so I'm thinking about playing now and resale later. I'll check the slot later monday. I think they are over priced but will do a little more research on price conparison. I prefer to have quality over quanity.

 

[jag312]

Is the slot in the bolt intended to bypass the block on the receiver? Yes.

 

[DOEBOY1]

Does the open bolt mean that the gun is illegal or does it mean that it is on it's way to being illegal? I intend on buying an uzi probably not the norinco because of my research. I think the price is too high anyway. What do yal think? Anybody with more info I'd like to go informed when I go. They have had the uzis for at least 2.5 years.

 

[Gunslinger808]

Go with the IMI.
Anything else is just a copy.

 

[jag312]

There are two ways to convert a semiauto Uzi to fire from the open bolt position. The first way is to add a open bolt with a slot on the right side to bypass the internal block. The bolt is illegal to possess unless it it registered as a Title II firearm and has the correct ATF paper work. The firearm so equiped can be made legal by removing the conversion bolt and re-installing the correct semiauto bolt to have the firearm fire from the closed bolt position.

The second way is to remove the internal block so that a submachinegun open bolt can be installed. The firearm is illegal to possess unless it is registered as a Title II firearm and has the correct paper work. There is no way to make a receiver so modified back to a legal configuration.

Check the gun and let me know the configuration. I do not want you to make a serious mistake that will prevent you from owning a firearm for the rest of your life.

 

[DOEBOY1]

Thanks for the heads up jag 312 sounds like the gun is illegal surely the store owner would have checked it out. He said the guns were owned by someone else on consignment. He said that it was open bolt I didn't check to see for my self. I'll look in the morning when I go by there. If it is not open bolt than what would be a fair price for the gun? I not interested in paying too much for it.

 

[nipster]

There were semi-auto UZI Model A's with open bolt made prior to the 1986 revision to the NFA banned open bolt semi-auto weapons. (or an early ATF ruling that banned this practice)

 

[jag312]

There are no original Uzi Model A carbines with an open bolt. Ever. I talked personally with Uziel Gal when he was showing the first semiauto when the SHOT Show was in San Francisco in 1980. He took it apart and showed all the modifications that he had to do to get Nick Voinovich, then Chief of ATF's Firearms Technology Branch, to grant approval for importation as a Title I firearm.

I later talked with Ed Owen, who became the next Chief of ATF's Firearms Technology Branch, about the semiauto Uzi and open bolt semiauto firearms. He told me that ATF screwed up big time by allowing the RPB open bolt semis to go into production. Nothing like that was ever going to happen again.

So I repeat, there are no Title I open bolt semiauto Uzi carbines. An open bolt semiauto Uzi has been classified by ATF as a Title II firearm. If it is not registered as a machinegun, and if you are not the registered owner, then possession of the firearm is a violation of Federal law. There are no exceptions. The consequences of possessing an open bolt semiauto Uzi are a felony conviction, a maximum of 10 years in Federal prison and a $10,000 fine, and if you ever transported the contraband firearm in your vehicle, then your vehicle can be confiscated. The felony conviction will prevent you from ever legally possessing a firearm for the rest of your life, and there is no Federal Judicial Relief for a machinegun conviction.

This is my final word on the subject. I can't make it more clear.

 

[peyton]

I have shot Uzi's, but never taken one apart. Could someone post a picture of what your talking about for our education?

 

[627 city hunter]

This described situation is one of the reasons why I have yet to buy a used firearm.

 

[Moonman]

jag312,

A very INFORMATIVE POST for everyone and DOEBOY1 in particular.

DO NOT FOOL AROUND WITH MACHINE GUNS, SAWED-OFF SHOTGUNS, AND SILENCERS/SUPPRESSORS IF YOU ARE A NOVICE!

THE ATF DOES NOT FOOL AROUND, THEY TAKE THESE MATTERS VERY SERIOUSLY AND THEY WILL JAIL YOU AND CONFISCATE ASSETS.

You need LEGALLY REGISTERED AND TRANSFERABLE ITEMS.

Type II manufacturers and Type III dealers can answer questions and supply paperwork for LEGAL FIREARMS AND SILENCERS/SUPPRESSORS ownership.

You need the proper paperwork completed, returned and the FEDERAL TAX STAMP in your possession BEFORE the item is in your possession.

BEWARE! Many street SAVVY people/gang members and criminals in general have altered firearms or have illegal ones they try to sell.

Some states classify firearms as machine-guns because of the capacity of the magazine, it doesn't matter if it's a semi-auto. Here in OHIO, the magazine needs to be 31 rounds or less, a larger capacity magazine needs to have a BLOCK in them to limit their total capacity. You can see 32 round mags for Glock's at gun shows, they're legal to own, just not legal to put into your Glock without limiting the magazines capacity in the state of OHIO for one.

THE ATF'S DEFINITION AND YOUR OWN STATES LAWS OF WHAT'S WHAT IS WHAT REALLY COUNTS, BE SAFE RATHER THAN SORRY.

Lots of folks enjoy the ownership of fully auto firearms and silencers/suppressors. There is a proper and legal way to participate with them, please obey the rules.

FOR FURTHER INFORMATION OR QUESTIONS PLEASE CONTACT THE ATF OR AN ATTORNEY. Should you inquire of the ATF a ruling or opinion, it would be best to have everything in writing.

This area of firearms law is not one to misunderstand or misinterpret, YOUR OPINION DOESN'T MATTER, this could cost you your freedom and firearm ownership rights for life.

 

[DOEBOY1]

Thanks to everyone for your information. I am well aware of what the public will do to a firearm. I am going to go look at the uzi in just a few minutes. With all the facts and opinions from you all I will make an informed decision. I have researched the gun for a couple of days hence my question I couldn't answer. I'll let you know what happens. Thanks to all! Doeboy

 

[jag312]

I have shot Uzi's, but never taken one apart. Could someone post a picture of what your talking about for our education?

Here are two pictures. One picture shows the internal block to prevent a submachinegun bolt from being assembled into the semiauto receiver. Somewhere I have a picture of the same area in an Uzi submachinegun that shows no block. That is one of the big differences between a semiauto receiver and a machinegun receiver.

The other picture shows a semiauto bolt assembly. It has two springs,and the firing pin is separate from the bolt. It has the slot so that the bolt will fit into the receiver. Below it is a converted submachinegun bolt. It has one spring and a fixed firing pin which is a little tit on the breech face. It also has the slot. The original submachinegun bolt does not have a slot because there is no internal block.

Any questions?

 

[jag312]

Here are two additional photos. One is of an Uzi receiver where the internal block was removed. The other is of a bolt face with a fixed firing pin for open bolt firing.