Ventless propane heaters....carbon monoxide??

[dave holl]

Like many others here we heat with wood and have a heat pump backup which hasn't been needed yet this winter even with below zero temps.

Some of you use ventless propane heaters. Could someone explain how it could be safe considering CO is given off during combustion. Is there some sort of catalyst that changes the chemical reaction during burning?
An unvented open flame in the house would make me very nervous.
Dave

 

[chief38]

Like many others here we heat with wood and have a heat pump backup which hasn't been needed yet this winter even with below zero temps.

Some of you use ventless propane heaters. Could someone explain how it could be safe considering CO is given off during combustion. Is there some sort of catalyst that changes the chemical reaction during burning?
An unvented open flame in the house would make me very nervous.
Dave

I'd like to know myself - great question! To the best of my knowledge NOTHING burns 100% efficient and so where do the byproducts go and what about the dangerous gases?? Hope there are some knowledgable guys here who can enlighten us.

 

[Model52guy]

Ventless LPG heaters are safe when there is enough fresh air ventilation in the room. Ventless heaters burn efficiently and produce very little CO, which is a product of incomplete combustion. The ventless heaters do produce Co2 and water vapor. A sign that you don’t have enough fresh air in the room will be heavy condensation on cold surfaces such as windows.

 

[mtgianni]

Ventless LP and Nat gas heaters have a jeweled pilot that shuts off when oxygen levels drop below safe levels. They should burn blue with at most a light yellow tip.
CO is not naturally produced by either gas burning correctly, but a dirty burner can quickly cause CO to be produced instead of CO2. While it is odorless and tasteless the aldahydes that accompany it are not, you will know something is amiss.
Non vented heaters are not generally legal in the Northern States, usually where they are not used as a constant heat source. All instructions I have seen and it is many, say to cut a permanent opening directly communicating to the outside of not less than 100 square inches for air circulation. I have never seen that done and tagged many as unsafe in a long career in the gas business.
A larger problem is water. The reason a vent is there is to remove water vapors. For each gallon of LP gas or Therm of Nat gas you produce about a gallon of water. With no vent you are just dumping it int the room.
Be smart out there.

 

[ShivasIrons]

I would go with a vented unit 10 out of 10 times.

 

[snubbyfan]

We have no problem with our vent free fireplace. No condensation on the windows, no bad smells and as far as I can tell, myself, my wife or our three cats haven't been affected by any toxic fumes.
Actually there was a bad smell once. Our cat Natayo was watching the dancing flames and stuck his paw through the bars in front and singed himself.
It produces a nice yellow flame and does look somewhat realistic.


It has a thermostat so it doesn't burn continuously. Just long enough to get up to temperature then switches off with just a little pilot flame.
We don't use it all the time just a coupla hours now and then.

 

[DWalt]

I have a second home (about 1200 SF) with two ventless wall-mounted propane heaters as its principal heating source, and they work well. After 15 years I am still alive. I have two CO detectors there also, in the bedrooms, and neither has ever gone off.

No matter what type of gas heating you have, hanging a few CO detectors on the walls is a good idea. And they are fairly inexpensive insurance against a potentially deadly catastrophe.

 

[chief38]

We have no problem with our vent free fireplace. No condensation on the windows, bad smells and as far as I can tell, myself, my wife or our three cats haven't been affected by any toxic fumes.
Actually there was a bad smell once. Our cat Natayo was watching the dancing flames and stuck his paw through the bars in front and singed himself.
It produces a nice yellow flame and does look somewhat realistic.


It has a thermostat so it doesn't burn continuously. Just long enough to get up to temperature then switches off with just a little pilot flame.
We don't use it all the time just a coupla hours now and then.

Does that Fireplace run on Natural Gas?

 

[bigwheelzip]

From the Propane Dealers Assoc.

Dangers of Carbon Monoxide and Incomplete Combustion in Propane Appliances

 

[rwsmith]

That kinda kills the idea....

Ventless LPG heaters are safe when there is enough fresh air ventilation in the room. Ventless heaters burn efficiently and produce very little CO, which is a product of incomplete combustion. The ventless heaters do produce Co2 and water vapor. A sign that you don’t have enough fresh air in the room will be heavy condensation on cold surfaces such as windows.

If it's freezing outside and I open my windows for ventilation all I'll be doing is heating the outddoors. I had the same problem with my fireplace. The house is sealed tight so it wouldn't draw unless a window was cracked. So cold air flows from the window to the fireplace where it is heated and blown out of the chimney. I wonder if I left my ash door open it would draw air from outside.

 

[rwsmith]

And smells like.....

We have no problem with our vent free fireplace. No condensation on the windows, bad smells and as far as I can tell, myself, my wife or our three cats haven't been affected by any toxic fumes.
Actually there was a bad smell once. Our cat Natayo was watching the dancing flames and stuck his paw through the bars in front and singed himself.
It produces a nice yellow flame and does look somewhat realistic.


It has a thermostat so it doesn't burn continuously. Just long enough to get up to temperature then switches off with just a little pilot flame.
We don't use it all the time just a coupla hours now and then.

And smells like burning cat hair, right?

 

[da gimp]

We have an old (over 100\ yrs old)rental house... that was a 2 unit dwelling... living room, bedroom, large kitchen on each side.. I combined the two units into one.

I replaced the old large floor mounted vented natural gas heaters in the units & bought 4 of the ultra high efficiency natural gas wall mounted non-vented heaters from Harbor Freight. I then purchased CO2 detectors for each room of that home ( they are both battery & hard wired) & put up smoke detectors too.

The instructions on the heaters say to never put them into any bedroom.

 

[mudcat100]

Been using a ventless propane wall mounted heater for 17 years and my place is small probably 900 sq. ft. two BR apt. No open windows or air vents. I have a heat pump but it never comes on when I use the gas heater. I put in a CO detector 2 years ago but it has never activated. No problems so far. The only maintenance I do is blow the dust out of it every fall.

 

[snubbyfan]

Does that Fireplace run on Natural Gas?

It runs on propane.

 

[snubbyfan]

And smells like burning cat hair, right?

Only when the cats get a little too curious.

 

[i1afli]

I once rented an apartment in a historic early-1900’s downtown building and the apartment had a ventless ng heater in a common wall between the bedroom and family room ... scared me to death. I put a CO detector in there and, although it registered some small level, it never reached elevated levels.