Vintage "K frames" and Pachmayr grips - what am I missing here?

[bedbugbilly]

I have been switching the grips on my Smiths to Pachmyre grips as I like the feel of them and the hold they give me. So - I bought Pachmayr grips for my Model 36 J frames - snub and 3" which are 1980's vintage - they went on and fit fine.

I purchased three sets of Pachmayr Part No. 03264 grips for the "S & W "K" - Square Frame Revolver SK-G". I put a set on my 1952 M & P - they fit fine. I put a set on my 1920ish M & P - they fit fine. THEN . . .

I went to put a set on my Combat Masterpiece - the grips fit the frame fine but when I went to put the grip screw in, the back of the mainspring was in the way. I tried everyday I could and when the grips were in place, it was enough to throw off the alignment so that the screw would not thread in to the other side! Yes . . . I was frustrated!

Soooooo . . . I called Lyman customer service and spoke with a rep - explained the situation and was politely told it was because my Combat Masterpiece was "vintage". Hmmmm . . . no problem fitting the more "vintage" M & Ps. From her remarks, this isn't the first time they've heard about it. And, I might add, the mainspring in my CM is "stock".

I was polite but pointed out that there is NOTHING on the packaging that states that the grips are made for "new K frames" and that they might not fit "vintage" K frames. I basically got nowhere but then I figured I wouldn't anyway. Her reply was - "If they don't fit your revolver, just return them to where you bought them and tell them they don't fit. It happens all the time."

I asked if they had anything that would "fit" and I got a lecture on how my revolver was "vintage" and their grips are made for "new" K frames.

In the end, I have a CM that I really wanted the Pachmaayrs on as they fit and feel the best for my situation. Now I'm back to "square one".

I'll "survive" but it kind of p#$%@&^s me off. Nothing that I've ever read in the Pachmayr literature or descriptions state that they may not fit "vintage" revolvers. At the very least, their packaging and descriptive literature should mention it - but then I suppose that it would hurt Lyman's sales as it would prevent old farts like me with old revolvers from ordering?

I use a number of Lyman products in my reloading and have always been very satisfied - but then I've never had to contact their customer service department either - this was the first time. While I was courteous and the lady was as well, I felt like I got "blown off" - no real apology or helpful suggestions - just a basic "yea, we know they don't fit older revolvers sometimes". IF YOU KNOW IT, THEN PUT IT IN THE LITERATURE AND ON THE PACKAGE! After all, the package states "Proudly made in the USA".

Perhaps this is common knowledge? If it is, I apologize as I've never heard it. I'm fairly "mechanically inclined" and just by looking at my K frames, it appears all they would have to do is move the grip screw back and it would clear any mainspring in any K frame - but I suppose that it would not be $$ wise for them. Makes me wonder though how many Pachmayr grips are laying around houses and on shelves because they were purchased and didn't fit? Before and "if" I ever buy another pair of Pachmayr grips again - I will certainly call Lyman first and find out if they will work or not.

Thank you . . I feel much better now!

 

[Jdavis]

Strange that the customer service rep would tell you that the grips only fit new K/L frame guns since all new K/L frames have round butts rather than square. I just tried a Pachmayr Gripper grip on a couple of older K frames and the grips fit both frames easily. Something doesn't seem right about your problem. Have you tried the grip in question on your M&Ps?

 

[gmborkovic]

Hey, do me a favor and post a pic of just one grip on with the screw inserted. I want to see how close it is to the spring. Just my curiosity.
Mike 2796

 

[-db-]

Pachmayr used to put in some grips screws with a thinned-down middle section to provide mainspring clearance but I don't know if they still do this.

 

[WaMike]

Apropos of nothing, we all probably have some older Pachs in our inventory that would fit.

But as a possible solution, have you tried Hogues? They feel better to my hand anyway.

 

[bedbugbilly]

I have three of the same grip - and I have tried to interchange them between the 1952 M & P, my 1920s K frame Target and the Combat Masterpiece. They fit the M & Ps and the screw till go through the grip hole and screw in with no interference.

This style grip "wraps" the square butt frame. It fits the frame of the CM fine - but the screw hole is located to far forward towards the inside of the grip frame (towards trigger guard) and the screw cannot go in and thread in the other side as the back of the mainspring is in the way.

My screws are the same as pictured above - thinner in the midsection. Even inserting the screw in the one side and placing the grip on the frame so that the thinner section would/should not hit the mainspring - there is not enough clearance. I even tried cocking the hammer which moves the mainspring forward just a posh and it still is in the way. IF, the screw would be able to be inserted and threaded in to the opposite grip panel, the mainspring would be in constant contact with the screw shank.

It's obvious to me from the response that I got from my call that they know about this problem and just don't want to correct it. What kind of baffles me is how S & W grips - regardless of the style - all seem to be interchangeable between K frames (I'm talking square butt as that's what I have) and they had no problem when they designed them in setting the grip screw hole far enough back towards the back of the frame so the screw would not be near or in contact with the mainspring - something which Pachmayr didn't do.

As I said, this is a "wrap grip". There is no way to adjust the tension screw on the mainspring at the bottom front of the frame, put the grips on and then readjust the tension as the grip would be covering the tension screw.

Like I said - I'm pretty "mechanically inclined" and any way I looked at it or tried it, I couldn't get it to work on my CM. My first inclination was to blame myself - then I called them and found out they were well aware that the problem exists.

Yes - I'm frustrated! I was hoping to have the same grip on all of my K frames as this grip seems to fit and feel the best to me and I've tried a number of different grips. I own and shoot a dozen or so 38s and 357s - Smiths, Colts, Rugers, Ubertis. I'm an experienced SA shooter and have been shooting SA for 50 years and a few years ago, got interested in the vintage Smiths. I like the Pachmayr type grips on the Smiths and I'm certainly not going to let this spoil shooting the ones that the grips fit on - it's just disappointing that they know there is a problem - probably have for a long time - but just aren't that concerned about it.

As I said - they fit fine on my '1952 M & P and my 1920's M & P Target - they just won't work on the CM I have - even though all three revolvers are square butt K frames. Just be aware of it if you order a pair to fit your vintage K frame - they might fit (and hopefully they will) or they might not. And it appears that you are going to have to discover that on your own as they certainly don't put that information in their literature or on the packaging.

 

[bedbugbilly]

gmvorkovic - forgot to add this to my last post. These grips are "wrap" grips that when on, they cover the frame all the way around - they are a "one piece grip" molded in one piece so there is not a way to put one panel on, insert the screw and show the location in regards to the mainspring. As noted above though, even with the smaller diameter in the middle of the screw (see photo in the above post) it still touches the back of the mainspring and throws the threaded end of the grip screw off enough that it doesn't even come close to lining up with the threads in the nut on the other grip. Being rubber grips, there is no way to alter them to move the hole back towards the back strap so the screw will miss hitting the mainspring.

 

[kaaskop49]

I'm not surprised. IIRC, I first saw (and bought) Pachs in the mid-ish 70s. Inexpensive, $9.95 and often less, they were IMO finely shaped. About a decade later, they became MUCH more crude in fit and finish. The relieved screw disappeared across the product line and some 2-piece grips became one-piece wrap-arounds and frankly fit only approximately on the designated frame.

I had my 'smith relieve the screw on a pair of RB-K Compacs as, unaltered, it prevented the mainspring from flexing on a snub 66. Similarly on my 58: the Presentation grip screw completely blocked the mainspring. This revised 1-piece grip fit the gun like a square block of wood.

Rumor had it the new production grips were made in Mexico but that may be incorrect. I wouldn't blame the retailer, rather the mfgr.

Kaaskop49
Shield #5103

 

[usnrigger]

I have a 625 3" that have the Pach's on it, they are the factory grips from early 90's. they have the screw with recessed center section. I put a Wolff spring in it for fun as I have a box of the shooters packs for S&W and I noticed when I put it back in it was causing screw off center. once I got the screw around the mainspring it cleared by a hair. I smoked the spring to check for contact after that no, didn't see any.

 

[handejector]

It is possible that the strain screw on the CM is too long.
That will push the spring further back.
It is also possible someone bent the mainspring slightly to lessen trigger pull.
That will push the spring further back.
The CM was viewed as a duty gun, so the strain screw might be long for positive ignition.
You might shorten it and still be fine.

 

[2hawk]

bbb-Mainspring change may be the answer- if you have any spares you might try that.

 

[BSA1]

I recall running into the same problem a couple of times over last 35+ years. I just chalked it up to slight manufacturing changes by S&W or Pachmyer and used a different brand of grips. For me it is much ado about nothing.

 

[THAWK66]

I kind of have the same problem with my 66 round butt.
If I push the grip screw through all the way first then finish wrapping the grip around then tighten this works for me.
Because the threaded part is wider than the shaft if you get the threaded part past the mainspring then fit the other side. This works for me hope it helps


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[Muley Gil]

The solution is easy.

Just leave the mainspring out and then the grips will fit fine!!

 

[scooter123]

Handejector has the answer. I put some Pachmayr Decelerators on my 610-3 and had to neck down the grip screw to get it to clear the mainspring and the 610-3 is certainly NOT "vintage". I expect that in addition to users "adjusting" the bend in the mainspring that there is also a rather large amount of variation in the arch formed in the mainspring.

The solution will require doing a bit of experimenting. First I would suggest file fitting the strain screw a touch shorter. Just take it in tiny stages and stop once you have a DA trigger pull of 9 lbs. BTW, that 9 lbs. recommendation is due to experience with Remington small pistol primers and CCI Magnum Small Pistol primers, they require a 9 lbs. DA trigger to insure reliable ignition.

If that doesn't solve the issue the next step will be to purchase a new Mainspring. I would suggest going with the standard S&W mainspring because there is a real possibility that your CM has an aftermarket mainspring.

 

[jtcarm]

That classic gun simply refuses to wear UGGs (Ugly Goodyear Grips).

 

[bananaman]

I think that S&W wood grips, and some aftermarket wood grips are a THING OF BEAUTY!!! I have only 1 gun, non wood (revolver) My 64-3, has C.T. grips on it. My night stand gun. Further more, my Smith revolvers all wear target grips. Just works for ME! Bob