Vintage USAF leather gear

[oldafsp]

The old AP/SP's will appreciate this...

The Sam Browne belt was a issue item in 1980, I used to have to replace them every 18-24 months. The contract holder on these just didn't have such a great dye job on them. And they were not the quality of the commerical ones.

The short billy was given to me by my Dad, it orginally belonged to a Birmingham, AL patrolman.

The rest was issued to me very early in my Air Force career,

The holster is made by S&W, a model BY07-44Y under contract to the Air Force. As is the flashlight holder, a S&W
B89.

The shield is the one originally issued to me upon graduation from the Academy. It was retired along with me in 1997 from the Reserves.

A couple of items I am still missing, and always on the search for.

 

[bgrafsr]

I had all my leather gear patent leathered while in the Phillipines, but I don't remember if I was able to take it with me when I transferred to Webb AFB, TX. I had to turn in all my gear when I was discharged, including my field jacket and my shield. I was allowed to keep my flyers sun glasses and my night stick though.

 

[oldafsp]

My gear took such a beating...and to this day I don't know why.

Maybe from getting in and out the cars and trucks so much. And it wasn't as if I didn't care for it properly.

I think it was the contractors way to cut corners on the goods.

The S&W gear was always better than the stuff that came from Cathay Enterprises.By far.

 

[mpi]

i was army and our gear was a mix of high quality bucheimer, and **** JP made in Spain. some other mfgr's were included as well, but i don't remember who they were.

 

[oldafsp]

Bucheimer made some of the sweetest police duty gear back then.

I still use a Bucheimer cross draw J frame holster to this day.

 

[Evil Dog]

Can't say as I ever saw any of the AP/SP folk in the 60's or 70's wearing decent leather... it was like a thumb break holster was a cardinal sin. Don't even think about putting decent grips on that Model 15 either. Only FMJ bullets??? Getting caught with a hollow point was no doubt a court martial offense.

 

[oldafsp]

Can't say as I ever saw any of the AP/SP folk in the 60's or 70's wearing decent leather... it was like a thumb break holster was a cardinal sin. Don't even think about putting decent grips on that Model 15 either. Only FMJ bullets??? Getting caught with a hollow point was no doubt a court martial offense.

The issue garrison belts in the '60s and early '70s were only 1 7/8" wide. Not double lined or reinforced. I remember buying my own Sam Browne belt and gear in plain black instead of using the junk that was issued.

That finally started to change a bit for the better.

After returning from SEA in 73, many of us assigned to Lackland and Kelly lobbied very hard for improvments to the issue gear and ammunition. Many of us were TDY over to the SP Academy as instructors in various areas.

Finally around late 1977, some of our work paid off. The PGU-12 "high velocity .38 special" rounds replaced the M41 ball ammo for SP use. Prior to this edict, the PGU-12 was limited to combat zone personell.

Many of us reloaded after guardmount with civilian ammo. On the big bases where activity often rivals a small city, we felt woefully underprepared. And we were.

I am glad that the Security Forces concept has improved the antiquated thinking and restrictions that existed back in those days.

The SAC bases were by far the worst. God forbid you ever questioned the regs. ADC and TAC bases were in my opinion the best working conditions of all.

Thankfully I was dual qualified, LE and Security. It became helpful for some good assignments in my career.

 

[Texas Star]

I never saw the holster shown. The ones we had were the swivel model. My bosses never seemed to care about holsters, and the base in Denver (Lowry AFB) was often short of holsters. We were told to go off base and buy one.
Didn't get any allowance for it, either: those came out of our own pockets.

I had a Jordan-style rig made by a leather craftsman back in Dallas, and later got a Bianchi or Safariland model. Don't recall which. El Paso Saddlery still makes that style.

At a remote radar station in Newfoundland, I sometimes just stuck a .45 auto in my waistband. Finally, some officer told me to use a holster and I got the Bianchi one. I liked it a lot.

Never really saw a proper Sam Browne rig. We just used the garrison belt or the green webbing one. We did use the crossbelt over the chest in dress blues.

 

[Bat Guano]

The leather gear in the late 60s was junk. I took my own .38-44 type LHP reloads to SEA in '66 and carried them in a nylon bandolier under my shirt. When I thought it was desirable I changed out the FMJ duty ammo to something with more horsepower.

"Trained killers" indeed.

my son is now flying in Afghanistan with an M9 and FMJ ammo, carrying on the tradition of lousy duty sidearms.

If you want good equipment--become a civilian.

 

[Evil Dog]

If you want good equipment--become a civilian.

Amen to that !!!

 

[walnutred]

i was army and our gear was a mix of high quality bucheimer, and **** JP made in Spain. some other mfgr's were included as well, but i don't remember who they were.

While never a LEO one of the holsters I use for CCW ia an old left handed Bucheimer Marshal,, B31-11W in a black basket weave. Probably 35 years old and starting to show some wear but a great holster.

 

[oldafsp]

my son is now flying in Afghanistan with an M9 and FMJ ammo, carrying on the tradition of lousy duty sidearms.

Bat just so you know...I voted against the Beretta everytime in the Service Pistol Trials. I was one small voice against many.

To this day I will never understand the military mindset when it comes to sidearms and effective ammo.

 

[mpi]

our leather gear was all required to be cookie cutter identical. WWII style flap holster, field dressing case, cuff case, strange swivel drop 2 snap night stick carrier and twin mag carrier. oh, and don't forget the combo drop carrier and suicide strap for your holster. the gear had to shine and it always rubbed off on your khaki's and ruined them in pretty quick order.

 

[JWM]

Brings back alot of memories. SP/LE enlisted airman from 1979-83. I think my leather gear was stamped "Oklahoma Leather Products" as I recall. Much to my surprise when I was discharged (honorable), all the USAF wanted returned was the blue issued law enforcement style jacket. They let me keep the shield, beret, and leather gear/web gear. I still have the shield, but unfortunately lost the leather gear in an apartment fire in 1991.

 

[Texas Star]

I do like S&W revolvers very much,but with the official ammo choices, I'd take the 9mm, and the added capacity of the M-9 and the quicker reloading. The Beretta has it all over the S&W M-15 if the bad guys attack a base, as at Ton Son Nhut during the Tet offensive of 1968 in Saigon. Of course, the M-16 rifle and M-60 machineguns were the main force in repelling that attack. (USAF cops are also the base defense units. I think most are now designated as Security Forces.)

I know a man who has killed six insurgents in Iraq with the M-9 and issue ammo, and he says that 9mm does well if placed well. He got another three with a Browning HP and that same ammo. It has to work better than some say. The issued .38 ammo was pretty sorry. I worked at one base where the ammo was bought off the shelf in town, 150 grain High Velocity stuff, but FMJ. I had more confidence in that. Still carried a .45 auto often, especially when I expected an elevated threat.

 

[Evil Dog]

+P hollow points take some of the worry out of being close. Unfortunately though that often just wasn't an option.

 

[Combat]

Someone must have dumped a lot of the holsters like the one in the OP's pic on the market recently. I have been seeing them for sale in large amounts at the last few gunshows I've been to. The first ones I saw last summer were selling for about $12.00 NIB. The last ones a saw about 2-3 months ago were selling for 3 for $10.00, but they were used/loose ones. Does anybody know anything about this?

 

[MSgtJimmy]

I wish that I could find one of those holsters in left hand; I'd snap it up! Security Forces is the term that replaced Security Police around 1997. They merged the law enforcement and security AFSC's back into one AFSC and added CATM as well. They had previously been 3 separate AFSC's. Now, they are all 3P0X1's. Military working Dog handlers have a "B" shredout and CATM troops have a "C" shredout. At least at Andrews, the CATM instructors were at least SrA (E-4) so they had a little experience before teaching. FWIW, I never had a bad class while qualifying. All instructors were top notch and I usually learned something.

 

[ImprovedModel56Fan]

From my limited (25 years) experience with the military, I'm surprised that the southpaws were allowed to use apppropriate holsters.

 

[MSgtJimmy]

They seemed to be OK with my "non-conformity". I was issued a brand new left-hand Bianchi thumbbreak and a Don Hume Sam Browne for when I wore the service uniform. For wear with BDU's, they gave me the then new, Bianchi OD green reversible holster and the newer style web belt with the plastic latch. I was happy with the gear and it served me well.