W296 - 357 mag 158 gr. LSWC question

[flgolfer29]

I've posted this question on another forum I frequent, and I'm hoping for a little input here.

In regards to using W296 (first time using this powder) for the 158 gr. LSWC. Of the six manuals I have on hand for reference, two makes a reference to the bullet profile in question.

Both are max grains, and everything I've read, it is advised not to load below the given grains.

Lee 2nd edition: 14.5 gr, 1.540" OCL

Lyman 3rd: 18.0 gr., 1.590" OCL.

The bullet I'm loading works out to 1.585" OCL. Prorating between the two different lengths and grain amounts, I'm looking at 17.3 grains as the proper loading.

Can a few of you Reloading Masters take a look at this and compare it to what some of you may be loading for similar bullet?

Thanks in advance....

joe

 

[Snapping Twig]

That's.. uh... a little too much.

Get more information, start low, work up.

Max is generally 15.5g for that combo.

 

[venomballistics]

IIRC, this one is going to be a little hot for lead. 1500ish in the data?

 

[rwsmith]

This is only what I have.

This is a question that may help clarify things. Aren't H110 and Win296 the exact same powder? Not similar...the same. Here is some data on H110:

I don't know the exact profile of the bullet you are using, but:

Lyman sez....

A 150 grain SWC shows 16.3 to 17.0 grains of H110

A 155 Flat nose configuration with narrow bands as 15.0 to 15.7 of H110

A 160 grain RN with bands similar to the 150 gr. SWC mentioned before goes from 15.8 to 16.5 gr. of H110.

The bullets are linotype hard cast bullets. In the 150 grain and the 160 grain the front groove is smaller than the back groove, unlike a Keith, which has nearly equal driving bands.

I second the prior advice of starting low and working up.

 

[alwslate]

Your OAL will mostly be determined by where the crimping groove is
on your particular bullet. In my experience with 296 and cast SWCs
in the 357 mag 296 does not respond well to reduced charges. Some
loads listed in older manuals exceed loads published since the
maximum pressure standard for the 357 was reduced to 35,000 psi.
Some older manuals listed charges as high as 18.0 grs with 158 gr
cast bullets. In my own use of and chronographing loads with 296
I have found that anything less than 17.0 grs is not going to yield
decent velocity in revolvers. The velocities listed in manuals from
test barrels are far in excess of what handloaders will actually see
from their revolvers. Many handloaders still don't seem to realize this.

 

[colt_saa]

JOE,
Changing the subject a bit . . . . . . .

You have not mentioned the construction of your projectile.

Swagged LSWC?

Cast LSWC?

Hard Cast LSWC?

Does it have a gas check?

H110/296 does not play well with 90% of the lead projectiles on the market and would not be my first choice for a powder to be used with lead. However, I seldom load lead to maximum velocities, at least in the 357 which has so many great jacketed choices.

That said, presuming you are using a GC or properly hard cast LSWC along with a magnum primer, you should be starting your load at 13 grains and slowly working up to 16 grains while looking for signs of not just pressure, but leading as well. Remember to use a firm roll crimp with all H110/296 loads regardless of the projectile in question

 

[Cdog]

Most have already given you the great advice you'll usually find at this forum.

I shoot mostly .38 Special, so my experience with magnum calibers is based more on larger bore chamberings.

If .358 properly hard cast for magnum pressures and velocities, W296/H110 should be fine with proven published data.

I've loaded more .45 Colt, .44 Mag, and 454 Casull using W296 than all other powders combined. Bullets of proper hardness respond well to this slow burning ball powder. Outstanding accuracy and impressive velocities are easily achieved. I love the load density this powder gives too.

The tight crimp will deliver consistent start pressures that ball powders favor as well as securing the remaining rounds in the cylinder from shooting loose under recoil.

W296/H110 ain't for target velocity loads.

 

[flgolfer29]

JOE,
Changing the subject a bit . . . . . . .

You have not mentioned the construction of your projectile.

Swagged LSWC?

Cast LSWC?

Hard Cast LSWC?

Does it have a gas check?

H110/296 does not play well with 90% of the lead projectiles on the market and would not be my first choice for a powder to be used with lead. However, I seldom load lead to maximum velocities, at least in the 357 which has so many great jacketed choices.

That said, presuming you are using a GC or properly hard cast LSWC along with a magnum primer, you should be starting your load at 13 grains and slowly working up to 16 grains while looking for signs of not just pressure, but leading as well. Remember to use a firm roll crimp with all H110/296 loads regardless of the projectile in question

The bullets I'm using are Premium Hard Cast Lead Bullets 38/357 158 Grain Semiwadcutter Bevel Base SAECO 388 Design (Lucky 13)

I've had good results using this bullet with 2400 and the barrels are clean and lead free after 200 round shooting sessions. I will again use 2400 once I can find more of it.

Thanks all for the very useful feedback, it is appreciated.

joe

 

[rwsmith]

Yay for 2400

If you are looking for velocity, 2400 in certain weights of bullets in the .357 magnum gives up very little to 110/296.

 

[OKFC05]

The bullets I'm using are Premium Hard Cast Lead Bullets 38/357 158 Grain Semiwadcutter Bevel Base SAECO 388 Design (Lucky 13)

My loads:
Crimp in the crimping groove, load 14.5 and go shoot. If that's not hot enough for you, buy 158gr JSP and load 16.5. If that's not hot enough for you, buy a .44 magnum............

 

[Rule3]

Forget data from LEE manual. It is derived from other sources, they never tested anything,

Perhaps invest in newer manuals like Lyman CAST and Lyman 49th.

The Cast manual is a must have if shooting lead bullets.

The data you seek is in there

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook: 4th Edition Book

As mentioned over at The other forum H110 and W 296 are exactly the same and require a MAG primer.

 

[flgolfer29]

Forget data from LEE manual. It is derived from other sources, they never tested anything,

Perhaps invest in newer manuals like Lyman CAST and Lyman 49th.

The Cast manual is a must have if shooting lead bullets.

The data you seek is in there

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook: 4th Edition Book

As mentioned over at The other forum H110 and W 296 are exactly the same and require a MAG primer.

Thanks for the info and manual reference, I have one on the way!

joe

 

[gwpercle]

Joe,
When loading cast lead you are going to have a crimp groove. Seat the bullet so that when crimped it crimps into that groove. Seat in one step, crimp in a separate step. Don't be concerned about any OAL.
The crimp groove takes precedence over everything .
Gary

 

[Sailormilan2]

Both Hodgden and Winchester say to not reduce loads by more than 3% when using H110/W296. For a 15 gr laod, that is .45 gr. There will be people say that they have reduced loads more than that with no problem, but one does that at one's own peril.
With regards to bullets and COL. Lyman 47th manual lists their 150 gr cast SWC(#358477) at a COL of 1.510". But, they list a starting load of 12.4 gr and a max load of 17.7 with H110. Hmmmmm, what happened to the 3%???
Their 155 gr cast SWCGC(#358156) at a 1.590" COL, and loads of 11.6 gr to 15.7 gr for H110.
Finally, their 168 cast SWC(#358429) at 1.553" COL, and loads of 11.8 gr to 15.7 gr of H110.

 

[rockquarry]

14 grains 296 works very well behind the original .357 Magnum bullet: the Hensley & Gibbs #51, 158-grain cast SWC. Muzzle velocity about 1,200 fps from 6" Python barrel. However, 12 grains 2400 is just as accurate with a similar velocity and much reduced muzzle blast over the the 296 load.

 

[flgolfer29]

Forget data from LEE manual. It is derived from other sources, they never tested anything,

Perhaps invest in newer manuals like Lyman CAST and Lyman 49th.

The Cast manual is a must have if shooting lead bullets.

The data you seek is in there

Lyman Cast Bullet Handbook: 4th Edition Book

As mentioned over at The other forum H110 and W 296 are exactly the same and require a MAG primer.

Great manual, prolly my favorite to date. Thanks for the heads-up.

14 grains 296 works very well behind the original .357 Magnum bullet: the Hensley & Gibbs #51, 158-grain cast SWC. Muzzle velocity about 1,200 fps from 6" Python barrel. However, 12 grains 2400 is just as accurate with a similar velocity and much reduced muzzle blast over the the 296 load.

I ended up shooting a total of four different powders (2400, AA#9, IMR 4227, & W296) with the 158 gr. LSWC (lucky 13)

Since this thread was originally about the W296, I'll share my results:

14.5 gr, 1.585" OCL, Ruger Blackhawk 6.5" barrel
Avg. 1260 fps

15.0 gr, 1.585" OCL, Ruger Blackhawk 6.5" barrel
Avg. 1284 fps

Both loads shot accurately and I am satisfied with it.

Of the four powders, each performed great and I experienced zero leading with any of the loads I tried.

If I had to choose one over the others, only for wow factor, it would be AA#9. The highest velocity with the least amount of powder.

Thanks for everyone's input with this thread request.

joe