Walther PP: What should I know about 'em

[Redcoat3340]

I've got a Hege Waffen .32acp (an FEG PP clone) that's in good shape mechanically but has a lot of outside miles on it.
I'd like to get a "real" one.

Would appreciate any tips, hints, info folks might have about PPs. They've been made for a long time, with Walther, Manurhin, and S&W (?) working on them. (Not really interested in PPK, I like "larger" guns!)

I want a shooter, not a collector's piece...what should I look for in terms of maker, model, year, etc. (not condition...I know how to do that).

Thanks in advance.

 

[Bullet Bob]

No matter what the slide markings may say, all post-WWII ones were made by Manurhin until approximately 1985, when a dispute led to Walther taking them back in-house. Since you want one to shoot I would get one marked as made by Manurhin, since they're usually a little less expensive.

 

[ColbyBruce]

You should know it is a ninety year old design from a time long before hollow point ammo was ever thought of. Most hands get cut by the slide cycling. It is neither small or light. There is a plethora of better choices for a self defense handgun.

That said, here is mine with a Glock 19.

 

[Rudi]

I had a German WWII one many years back. It was a shooter and shot well. It worked well with Winchester Silvertips.

 

[Absalom]

Definitely look for a post-war specimen. Anything from pre-1945 with a whiff of Nazi about it carries a collectors premium regardless of condition and does not fit your need for a shooter.

You need to decide on the caliber. I would eliminate the .380 because those will all be commercial imports or US-made and therefore newer and more expensive. The .380 is marginally more effective and significantly less fun to shoot, but if you were looking for a carry gun you would have said so.

Look for a retired West German police PP from the 1950s to the 1970s, usually with import stamps from Century Arms (CAI or CIA), Interarms, or HK, plus a few smaller importers. Most have some state emblems too. There are also Swedish (marked) and Danish pistols (unmarked; identifiable only by the box) on the market from that time.

The ones up to about 1958 will be all-Manurhin, after that they will say Walther/Ulm, but as mentioned above, they are still made at Manurhin, just finished at Ulm. Only the Austrians kept buying directly from Manurhin; those guns show up too into the 400-thousands.

These guns are usually in very good shape for their age, as European agencies didn’t shoot or practice much, plus many went back for refurbishing at some point. If you look a bit, you may find them starting around 400.

Attached: my PP, a typical example, all-Manurhin, 1955/56, Bavarian police

 

[hardknocks]

FEG

The FEG I had was more reliable than the 2 walther PP'S I owned. $$$$$
But walthers are kool.
YMMV

 

[LVSteve]

The FEG is a better gun in many ways. There, I said it out loud. FEGs have a bit more beavertail and I read that there are detail changes in the mechanism that make them a bit more robust.

 

[diyj98]

I've owned a number of ppk and pp's. I love the mystic behind them, but both are prone to cutting the webbing of my hands. The Makarov design actually works better for me.

 

[Jagrmaister]

.32 are more fun for shooting. The .380s carry a premium. Anything pre-wwii as well. The .32 PPs really are pleasant if you're already into the caliber or don't mind adding it.

 

[2152hq]

One of the Post War mfg Euro Police turn in .32's are a nice Model PP.
I had several and never managed to hold on to them,,my loss.

Fun to shoot in 32,,the 380 can be a bit brisk in the hand when shooting.

Simpsons always seems to have a good supply of them around.
https://simpsonltd.com/hand-guns/walther

Classic handgun, I'm down to one 1937 mfg PPK in 32.
I'll keep that one.

I've never had the problem many experience with the pistol slide cutting the web of your hand when it recoils. But many do.

I know there are a great many other choices for carry and defense purposes, but I don't buy things based on that.
Sometimes I just like something enough to want one.

 

[Redcoat3340]

Many thanks to all so far. Great advice.

I'll be hunting for a Manurhin in .32 acp (I had a very nice Sig 230 in 380 that was just too snappy..my current 380s are a Beretta 85F and M&P EZ).

As this is not a carry gun but for the range and "collection" (it goes well with my P1 Manurhin) .32 is plenty of power to punch paper.

And it will be interesting to shoot a Manurhin alongside my FEG....

I've check Simpson's out and they've got a couple that are in my price range. (And C&R which is nice as well.)

Again, thanks all for coming through.

 

[Big E3]

Mine is an early one, it was built in the first 3800 guns. That serial # makes it likely first year of production in 1929. Only came in 32cal that year. The PP’s were serialized starting at 750,000 in 1929. Mine is believed to be a war prize GI bring back, no import markings also no other documentation so will likely never know its history. Still it’s not going anywhere and yes, I have many others that I carry. I still would not hesitate to use it if the need should arise. If you are looking for a shooter they are out there, and prices seem to be all over the place. Have some patience and it never hurts to have an expendable plastic fantastic modern shooter around to trade when someone inherits one.

 

[Andyd]

I owned several Walther PPs in 7,65 Browning / .32 ACP over the years and have always enjoyed shooting them and found them to be the best performing .32 ACP among the pistols that I owned of that calibre. I eventually sold all my .32 ACPs because it is hard to find the empty brass and the tiny cases and bullets are a pain to reload and the ammo is not exactly cheap.

I still have some Walther and Manurhin PPs but now in .22 l.r. and over the course of a couple thousand of rounds, the price difference has been recovered.

I just bought this Manurhin in .22 l.r. and will not need to worry if I scratch it up! I got a good dozen spare mags for them but even well used ones cost now over $100, with the magazine body being identical to the Hammerli International.

 

[Andyd]

If you want a "real" post-war Walther made PP you should take a look at the reloader's challenge; the PP Super in 9x18. Apart from the even more expensive and hard to find ammo - it is not a Makarov cartridge - it is a very nice shooter.

 

[BAM-BAM]

Just an FYI.... about 2 maybe 3 years ago I got a stainless PPK/s in .32apc w/ 4 magazines here in W. Pa. for $380. Don't think you'd touch a .380 PPK for less than $500

 

[oneounceload]

When I had my French PP in 32, I found it to be pleasant to shoot, a natural pointer. The decocker worked as advertised. The ONLY downside was trying to find that expensive 32 brass. I wound up placing a large enough tarp on the ground

 

[ColbyBruce]

To the OP, look at the photos of Big E3’s gun and then mine and the others. Notice the difference in the angle of the safety lever. That 90 degree angle on Big E3’s gun is a sure sign of an older gun, which some people search for.

 

[BB57]

I purchased a couple police surplus PPs several years ago when they were fairly common on the used market here in the US. As noted above, those surplus PPs tend to be in very good to excellent condition. $400 was the going rate at the time, but $550-600 is an average range for a Manurhin made PP in excellent condition and they are not going to get less expensive.

Also as noted above, Walther started "making" PPs again once the post war small arms restrictions were lifted. But this is a bit of a misnomer. After WWII, Walther moved the tooling to the Alsace region of France (where the population was ethnically German) and Manuhrin made the pistols from walther forgings.

In 1958 Walther started having finished frames and small parts shipped from Manuhrin along with machined but unfinished, un-heat treated and un-rollmarked slides. Walther then induction heat treated, roll marked and finished the slides and performed the final inspection. Under West German law, those actions qualified the pistol as being made in West Germany. Since the slides were finished separately from the frames, its not uncommon to see a slight mismatch in the bluing between the two. The Walther pistols have snob appeal, but the quality of the Manuhrin pistols is just as good.

In 1986 Walther finally started making entire pistols in West Germany, but in the opinion of many PP owners, the quality of those pistols actually dropped a bit.

---

FEG also made near clones of the PP series pistols, but since they were originally designed for use in 9mm Makarov, the frames and slides are slightly heavier.

I like the FEG steel frame AP pistols as much as I like the Walther PP pistols. The AP9S is a PP sized .380 ACP (9mm Kurz) pistol while the APK9S is a PPK/S sized .380 ACP pistol. AP7S and APKS are the same except in .32 ACP (7.65 Browning).

Quality of finish depends on who imported them. Interarms started importing them when supplies of PP and PPK/S pistols were in doubt and they ordered them to a very high standard of finish. Several years ago you could find them in near mint condition for $350-$400. Now that will get you one in fair to good condition.

TGI also imported them and the finish on them isn't as high, but they are just as reliable.

In general the FEG pistols have slightly larger chamber dimensions than the Walther pistols and are usually not very picky about ammunition.

----

The slightly heavier weight and more generous grip dimensions of the FEG pistols make them more pleasant to shoot in .380 ACP than the Walther PP. The Walther PP is however a very sweet pistol to shoot in .32 ACP.

For self defense purposes there isn't much difference between the .32 ACP and the .380 ACP when shooting FMJs. The .380 ACP might be marginally more effective, but you get an extra round in the magazine with .32 ACP. Hornady XTP hollow points both perform well in PP length barrels, where velocity is around 1050-1100 fps.

Below (top) is an Interarms AP9S, with an AP7S below it and a pair of police surplus PPs in 7.65mm Browning on the bottom:

 

[Absalom]

...
FEG also made near clones of the PP series pistols, but since they were originally designed for use in 9mm Makarov, the frames and slides are slightly heavier.
...

In Communist times before 1990, the FEG 9mm Mak was the “poor man’s PP” in the Eastern bloc. Higher ranks in the East German “People’s Police”, the Stasi, and the party got a German Makarov copy made in Suhl, lower ranks had to content themselves with a Hungarian wannabe PP (the two-tone alloy frame variant, to cut cost).

I think quality has improved quite a bit since FEG has been competing in Western markets. Or maybe the PA-63’s low esteem was just a prestige thing to begin with. I once read something by a retired West Berlin officer who recalled feeling quite resentful about having to carry “French-made” P1 pistols instead of “real Walthers”, and then feeling quite stupid when he found out later that the Manurhin-marked P1s were just as German-made as the Walther-marked ones.

 

[American1776]

These are very nice little guns. The Manurian German police guns are a good deal. Some might work well, some might need just a little gunsmithing.

They are not as durable or reliable as modern pocket guns. I remember reading, long ago, an article wherein the acceptable number of malfunctions for the old Walther PP (post war, before the 9mm pistols like HK P7, Walther P5, etc) for the German police was 1 malfunction in 50 rounds. Today, this is a jam-0-matic. Back then, it was normal.

There was also an Army General who, in the 1950's, did a 'torture test' of some German military sidearms. The PP and PPK didn't make 4,000 rounds before they cracked, broke, and malfunctioned. I cannot remember where I read that, but it suck out in my mind.

These are well machined, nicely made pocket guns that are meant to be carried and shot sparingly.

I do like them.