What Constitutes a Good Trigger - 686 v GP100

[Godofgunx]

Hi S&W Community, hope to get some insight from people more knowledgeable than me. I'm hoping to find out more about revolver triggers as I have no experience with them and what it means to be a good trigger in a revolver.

I have been researching into my first revolver and have settled on the current production SW 686 and GP100. I have read a ton of threads on this forum (and pretty much all over the internet) that the 686 has a better stock trigger than the GP. However, I had the chance to play with these guns twice, once at a gun shop, the second at a gun show. When I picked up these guns, the GP trigger actually felt far more superior than the 686. The 686 (both times I've handled the guns) felt heavy on DA. The initial pull is probably around upwards of 10 lbs (guesstimation). On the other hand, the GP's DA was way lighter.

So this brings me to the question of what makes a good revolver trigger? Is DA supposed to be that heavy? Also, a lot of people say that SW triggers are smooth. What does that mean? Because Ruger's felt pretty smooth too. Are heavy/light and smooth/rough two different categories? Will the 686 get lighter over time in dry fire? Or would I have to spend money on a gunsmith to make it lighter?
Not sure if I'm judging the triggers wrong...am I suppose to be feeling for something? I know that DA should be heavier than SA, but the SW seems a bit excessive. Unless that's suppose to be intentional? Did they use to have better triggers in their older models? Also, why is the Gp100 trigger considered decent? What makes it decent? What is it lacking to become "good"?

I really like the 686 because of the looks and design but I don't know if this trigger will be the tipping point towards the Ruger. Does anyone share a similar experience? I'm looking to get a 6 in version of either model mostly used for the range. I appreciate the comments and expertise from everyone.

 

[Ashlander]

I have a bunch of S&W K-frames, a 686-6 as well as a 3" GP100 and an old Speed Six. The triggers are all good, but they are a bit different. The double action stroke on a S&W is a bit shorter. A lot of folks used to that specific length of pull might instantly dismiss the Ruger double-action pull. And of course, vise versa -- if you're used to the GP100, the S&W trigger, no matter how smooth, takes some getting used to.

All triggers smooth out with use and with spring kits and a little polishing, all triggers can be lightened up without sacrificing reliability in terms of light strikes (if springs are too light the hammer won't have enough energy to set off the primer).

I prefer the Ruger triggers, but not so much that it has stopped me from collecting S&Ws. As I said they are both good -- only a bit different.

 

[amazingflapjack]

Proof is in the pulling.

 

[reddog81]

Ashlander did a good job explaining some of the differences. Remember that each gun is a rule onto itself. Some Rugers will be better than others and same with the S&W's.

Being able to dryfire a couple back to back will tell you more than about which one you like more so than anyone one the internet. Both will smooth up some after shooting. Both can have lighter springs installed.

I have read many times on forums that Rugers triggers can never match a good S&W trigger but that's not correct in my opinion. However I have dryfired some Rugers that weren't very smooth. Testing a gun out before you buy it to make sure nothing is off can be very valuable.

 

[mjzman]

OP, I'm exactly same situation as you except it was two years ago. After testing both at gunstore I decided the GP100 trigger felt much better to me and bought one. No regrets, I shoot it more accurately than any other handgun I own. I do find my five-inch barrel GP100 to be a little muzzle heavy though.

 

[Texas Star]

I sold my four-inch M-686 and got a four-inch GP-100. I've owned two GP's, one with fixed sights. Both have good, smooth, very even trigger pulls. SA pull is quite noticeably heavier and longer than an S&W trigger. But that may be an advantage if you're about to shoot and decide at the last second not to. On paper targets or small game, the S&W SA pull is better. Less likely to disturb the aim.

I sold my M-686 because it was too nose-heavy and the Ruger feels better balanced, overall. Mine has Pachmayr Gripper grips.

When I wore a gun to work, it was most often a S&W M-66-3 or a Model 64 when limited to a .38.
Occasionally it was a Ruger Security-Six or my GP-100. I had faith that any of those, or a Manurhin MR-73 that I wore briefly, would get me home alive. The MR action was smooth, but the grooved trigger had sharp edges that I didn't like.

If you ever feel a honed S&W action, especially on a K-frame, you will be astounded and pleased to feel what a revolver action can be.

The higher grade Webleys, like those made for Wilkinson Sword, or the WG model, also had honed actions that were very smooth.

The slickest auto I've owned was a prewar Colt .38 Super in Match Grade, but with the optional fixed sights. Those had factory-honed actions. And a considerably higher price tag to provide for that.

 

[patrickd]

I have a bunch of S&W K-frames, a 686-6 as well as a 3" GP100 and an old Speed Six. The triggers are all good, but they are a bit different. The double action stroke on a S&W is a bit shorter. A lot of folks used to that specific length of pull might instantly dismiss the Ruger double-action pull. And of course, vise versa -- if you're used to the GP100, the S&W trigger, no matter how smooth, takes some getting used to.

All triggers smooth out with use and with spring kits and a little polishing, all triggers can be lightened up without sacrificing reliability in terms of light strikes (if springs are too light the hammer won't have enough energy to set off the primer).

I prefer the Ruger triggers, but not so much that it has stopped me from collecting S&Ws. As I said they are both good -- only a bit different.

I agree with this. I have a 586 that breaks so clean I highly doubt it could be improved on in single action mode. The GP100 I have runs a close second, but not as sweet as the Smith. While my 586 has a very smooth and nice DA trigger, the Ruger is just as smooth but I can stage it in DA just short of breaking and then finish the pull touching off the round after my sights settle on the target. I really like this DA on my GP100 for that reason. The Smith's DA is not stageable at all and just goes off with no warning between cyl lockup and the hammer falling. I really like the Ruger's DA but in SA it will never be as good as the Smith. I guess this is why I'll never get rid of either.

 

[rwsmith]

My 686 no dash trigger...

The thing is smooth as silk in double action. Crisp in single action. Right up there with my mod 10-7.

My DAO 3rd gen 5943 is also super smooth, just a little long.

My DAO M&P Shield has an excellent trigger, close to a single action.

 

[murphydog]

A trip to a range that rents guns may clarify matters for you. To me, "crisp" in SA (no creep before the trigger breaks) and "smooth" in DA (consistent, non-gritty pull) are most important. The length of pull and weight are subject to personal preference and can be altered with springs, stocks or careful gunsmithing. Good luck in your decision.

 

[silentflyer]

If good triggers are your quest , check older "pre-lawyer " K and N frame S&W's , or any Colt snake guns if money is no object..

 

[scooter123]

First, your guestimate on trigger weights is very likely low.

Typical new S&W revolvers today ship with a DA trigger pull of about 12.5 lbs. As for why, that is heavy enough that a 5 year old normally isn't strong enough to pull. At least that is the belief of S&W and it's lawyers. Perhaps if some people were more responsible with their firearms and children S&W could go back to shipping new revolvers with 9 lbs. DA triggers as they did back in the early 70's.

Some good news is the medium and large frame S&W revolvers still feature a Leaf type Mainspring which means no "coil bind" and a very easily tuned trigger. To get to 9 lbs. with a 686 all you have to do is stone 0.015 to 0.020 inch off the tip of the Strain Screw. Have a good gunsmith do a full trigger tuning with an extended travel firing pin and you can get a VERY VERY smooth 8 lbs. trigger that is 100% reliable with almost any ammunition. Note, Remington UMC has recently started using "hard" primers so I run my revolvers at a 9 lbs. DA trigger because I like Remington's cases for reloading, so I shoot up some UMC anytime I need fresh brass.

As for the trigger on a Ruger GP100, it may be lighter out of the box but it is not nearly as easily tuned. In addition because of the Coil Mainspring you won't ever eliminate the friction between the mainspring and it's strut so a GP won't ever have a trigger as smooth as a well tuned 686.

 

[walkin' trails]

i understand where the OP is coming from as the last 686 I played with at a store had a pretty stiff DA trigger - a lot heavier than they used to be. I carried a stock 686 years ago and it's DA was quite a bit lighter and more manageable. The last Ruger revolver I played with was the LCR, and I thought it's trigger press didn't seem as solid as a comparable J- frame, but I haven't cared for the S&W polymer Bodyguard's action either. I think the aRuger GP100, from the factory comes with an action that is about as refined as Ruger's have ever been. That said, I have three K-frames with trigger jobs, and as my dad always carried S&W revolvers with action tunes, I am no stranger to them. For an average shooter who's revolver is going to perform double duty range/SD, the factorybtrigger is fine. On the other hand, if I were to acquire a new 686, it would be going to a smith for tuning and being the DA pull down to about 8 pounds, which is consistent with my Ks. That said, there have been some professional shooters over the years who preferred a heavy DA pull on a revolver. Furthermore, smooth is always more preferable to light as it getting rid of the "bumps" makes the gun more accurate. Them there was the Xolt Trooper bought once by the Border Patrol that came with a 19 pound DA pull. I have not had the chance to play with a Gary Reeder-tuned GP100, but I side with those who, from experience will attest that a S&W action is capable of more refinement than a Ruger.

 

[epj]

Aside from the trigger, you will also find that the GP 100 bore axis is higher than the Smith. This affects balance and felt recoil.

 

[Longhorn1986]

I can only compare an M60 to a SP101, but the Ruger had the single worst trigger I have ever tried. It was heavy and gritty. Even after having it worked on by a very talented gunsmith, the Ruger's trigger is still several notches below the S&W's. Of course, your mileage may vary.

 

[H Richard]

A trigger pull is a very personal opinion. What one person likes another doesn't. I can tell you a friend has a Ruger Security six that has a fabulous trigger, but he spent probably 10-15 hours stoning to get it that way. My 686 has a (to me) great trigger that is measured about 10 lbs, but it is smooth enough it feels like 7 lbs, and is reliable with all primers. I personally prefer all S&W triggers over Ruger triggers, but it is an individual preference. Only you can decide what you prefer.

 

[Neumann]

Smith triggers run 13+ pounds in DA and 4-1/4 pounds SA, but with a very clean break. Performance Center L and N frames come with a 10# DA and 3-1/2# SA, and the triggers have a fixed stop that limits over travel to about 1/16".

The first thing you notice about PC revolvers is the DA is smooth throughout the stroke, with no staging. The lockup is usually very tight due to custom timing of the hand and star. Standard revolvers aren't as smooth out of the box, but improve with use.

Lightening the mainspring (and usually the rebound spring too) reduces the DA pull weight, but may result in light strikes. I have not had light strikes with either stock revolvers or the PC versions, unless the tension screw was loose.

I prefer leaf to coil springs. The action is smoother and there is less mass for a quicker lock time. On the other hand, coil springs are reported to last longer. I won't live long enough to wear out my Smiths, nor appreciate the blocky shape of Ruger revolvers.

 

[patrickd]

First, your guestimate on trigger weights is very likely low.

Typical new S&W revolvers today ship with a DA trigger pull of about 12.5 lbs. As for why, that is heavy enough that a 5 year old normally isn't strong enough to pull. At least that is the belief of S&W and it's lawyers. Perhaps if some people were more responsible with their firearms and children S&W could go back to shipping new revolvers with 9 lbs. DA triggers as they did back in the early 70's.

Some good news is the medium and large frame S&W revolvers still feature a Leaf type Mainspring which means no "coil bind" and a very easily tuned trigger. To get to 9 lbs. with a 686 all you have to do is stone 0.015 to 0.020 inch off the tip of the Strain Screw. Have a good gunsmith do a full trigger tuning with an extended travel firing pin and you can get a VERY VERY smooth 8 lbs. trigger that is 100% reliable with almost any ammunition. Note, Remington UMC has recently started using "hard" primers so I run my revolvers at a 9 lbs. DA trigger because I like Remington's cases for reloading, so I shoot up some UMC anytime I need fresh brass.

As for the trigger on a Ruger GP100, it may be lighter out of the box but it is not nearly as easily tuned. In addition because of the Coil Mainspring you won't ever eliminate the friction between the mainspring and it's strut so a GP won't ever have a trigger as smooth as a well tuned 686.

I took my Dremmel tool and polished the strut to a mirror finish. That and some graphite based lube and it is very smooth. Smooth enough that I can't feel any dragging of the spring on it at all. No doubt the leaf setup has the potential to be smoother, but I'd not let that deter me from the GP. Personally, I love the modular engineering of the Ruger. Anyone and I mean anyone with any skills at all can disassemble and polish the Ruger trigger group.

 

[Redlegvzv]

I have two 686 revolvers and two Ruger GP100s.

The Ruger trigger can in fact be beautifully tuned, as indeed is the case with my Ruger GP100 6" (2011 manufacture).

The Smith trigger can also be tuned to a nice 9 lb. very sweet trigger.

The Ruger trigger will always be longer and "stagier" than the Smith. I stage both my Ruger and my 686+. Both shoot great.

A trigger is a very personal thing. The OP should try both; ideally he should try other people's revolvers that have already had trigger jobs.

 

[mikesal34744]

I have 2 686s and one trigger pull is the best on a revolver ever and the other is pretty good. Both are better than the gp100 I had. Plus u get an extra round in the 686 plus

Sent from my SM-G920T using Tapatalk

 

[one eye joe]

A trip to a range that rents guns may clarify matters for you. To me, "crisp" in SA (no creep before the trigger breaks) and "smooth" in DA (consistent, non-gritty pull) are most important. The length of pull and weight are subject to personal preference and can be altered with springs, stocks or careful gunsmithing. Good luck in your decision.

I THINK THAT THIS INFO, AND BIT OF ADVICE IS THE MOST VALUABLE POST THAT I HAVE READ SO FAR. SO OFTEN WE READ STATEMENTS LIKE, "THIS TRIGGER BREAKS LIKE A GLASS ROD", OR SOME OTHER IMAGINATIVE ACCOLADE. WELL REALLY NOW BOYS AND GIRLS, HOW MANY OF US HAVE ANY EXPERIENCE IN BREAKING GLASS RODS---AND WHERE WOULD YOU HAVE TO GO, TO BE ABLE TO DO SUCH A THING ? ? ? SOOOO, IN ACTUALITY, THAT BIT OF INFO IS ESSENTIALLY USELESS---ESPECIALLY TO A NEWBIE WHO IS LOOKING TO PURCHASE A FIRST FIREARM. THAT BEING SAID, I WISH I HAD A DOLLAR FOR EVERY TIME THAT I HAVE READ THOSE WORDS IN THE 60 YEARS THAT I HAVE BEEN SHOOTING. I WOULD BE ABLE TO PURCHASE A COUPLE OF BRICKS OF CCI MINI-MAGS, EVEN AT THE INFLATED PRICES THAT THEY SELL FOR ON GUN BROKER........

THE MOST IMPORTANT THING IS HOW A PARTICULAR TRIGGER FEELS TO YOU, AND NOT WHAT YOU READ IN A BOOK, OR ON LINE. A LOT OF THAT HAS TO DO WITH HOW THE WEAPON FITS AND FEELS IN YOUR , LENGTH OF PULL, BALANCE, ETC. YOU WOULD WANT TO START OUT WITH THE REVOLVER THAT APPEALS TO YOU THE MOST IN ITS FACTORY STOCK FORM. AS SUGGESTED HERE, SOME RANGE TIME WITH A RENTAL OF EACH GUN THAT YOU ARE CONTEMPLATING, WILL BE MONEY WELL SPENT. KEEP IN MIND THAT BOTH RUGER AND S&W TRIGGERS CAN BE IMPROVED UPON, AS MENTIONED ABOVE, AND GRIPS CAN BE CHANGED (MORE SO WITH S&W DUE TO INCREASED AVAILABILITY) TO ALTER THE FIT AND FEEL IN YOUR HAND.....

START OFF WITH THE STOCK WEAPON THAT SUITS YOU BEST, AND THEN SPEND A LITTLE MONEY TO PERSONALIZE IT EVEN MORE TO YOUR LIKING, AND EITHER OF THE REVOLVERS THAT YOU ARE CONTEMPLATING WILL GIVE YOU MANY YEARS OF SERVICE, AND PLEASURE........