What sort of groups should I expect from my 4" 44magnum?

[GlossyTundra]

S&W 29-3 4" barrel. Today I was checking sights and shooting 240gr FMJ. I was seeing groups between 3-4" at 20yrds. Is that normal, good, bad etc? I'm planning on using this handgun for hunting when the shot allows, and I want to make sure the pistol is performing as it should.

 

[Dragon88]

It should shoot a little better than that. Were you using a stable rest? Try a good 240gr SWC if you handload, or some different loads if you are stuck with factory ammo.

 

[team sidewinder]

Its not bad. I would say the largest spread you would want is in the 3" or smaller would be even better. But hey 3"-4" isn't bad in my book with iron sights and hot loads where some lighter handloads might shrink your groups some.

 

[OKFC05]

I want to make sure the pistol is performing as it should.

The dispersion of shots comes from three sources: The gun, the ammunition, and the shooter. The total dispersion is 1 over the sq root of the sum of the inverse squares of the individual contributions.

In plain English, if you at 25yd have a 2" gun and 1" ammo, but a 4" shooter, the best average you can expect is around 4". And that's usually about the ratio with a S&W revolver. The gun is seldom the limiting factor. Several of my S&W revolvers will shoot under 2" at 25yds, in the right hands.

 

[Nemo288]

Do some load development and you should approach one hole groups at 25 yards.
The 4"ers are as capable as any others at these ranges.

This is at 50 feet. The maximum range of my indoor range.
The flyer is most likely my fault.
That's 16.6 yards. Extrapolate that to 25 yards and you may
still have a one hole group.

---
Nemo

 

[murphydog]

It's a two-part answer. First, the groups it prints may not be applicable to hunting, as you will probably not get 3-6 shots off. It does give you a rough idea of how far you can be away from your target and expect to hit a vital area, under the conditions with which you shot it today. Add in less than optimal conditions (dark, cold, shaky, wet, slippery gun, not being able to use a solid rest) and shorten the distance accordingly. Practice helps control the "you" variable in this.

Second, remember that you only have to worry about putting a shot within 50% of your group size. If you shoot 4" groups consistently under field conditions, that means you can put a shot 2" from your aiming point at that distance, which is more than adequate for hitting a deer-sized target in the vitals.

 

[MajorD]

murphy- I would add that in a hunting or defensive situation -where you may not get the best shooting postiion and you are likely to have a bit of adrenaline rush expect groups 50% larger than on a static range( at least). most every gun will have a pet load or bullet weight it likes best. Testing multiple bullets and power levels is what will help you find the best load for your gun with some shooting much better than others. the most accurate load ,not the most powerful(within reason) is going to bring home the bacon.
A load that say gives 600 foot pounds of energy but is very accurate is a better hunting load than one that goes 900 foot pounds energy but is only fair in the accuracy department.

 

[Titegroups]

You should be able to easily shoot groups like that unsupported by hand at 20yds. The gun should be able to do at least 2" groups with the right ammo. If your not able to shoot 4" groups at 20yds without support you need more practice.

 

[BubbaBlades]

.44 magnum S&W Model 29 vs M&M.MOV - YouTube
Nemo288 is correct based upon my experience. I get the same size groups from my 3", 4" and 6" 29s/629s out to about 35 yards. The above video shows me shooting a 6" M29 at a 1/2" diameter dot approximately 25 yards away. I am shooting with my right hand and holding my camera under the gun with my left hand. The ammo used is factory .44 magnum Remington 240 grain lead gas check.
Some people that have used my 44s expect that they will shoot very small groups with them. When a few of them cannot shoot a six inch group at 50 feet, their expectations become more realistic. When it comes to accurate shooting, I believe that it is the "Indian" not the "arrow" that makes the difference.
Mark

 

[Titegroups]

.44 magnum S&W Model 29 vs M&M.MOV - YouTube
Nemo288 is correct based upon my experience. I get the same size groups from my 3", 4" and 6" 29s/629s out to about 35 yards. The above video shows me shooting a 6" M29 at a 1/2" diameter dot approximately 25 yards away. I am shooting with my right hand and holding my camera under the gun with my left hand. The ammo used is factory .44 magnum Remington 240 grain lead gas check.
Some people that have used my 44s expect that they will shoot very small groups with them. When a few of them cannot shoot a six inch group at 50 feet, their expectations become more realistic. When it comes to accurate shooting, I believe that it is the "Indian" not the "arrow" that makes the difference.
Mark

Hell of shot there.

 

[Jitterbug]

Glossy

I have a new 4" 629-6. I've run 25- six shot groups of various loads at 12.5 yards, off a bench with a rest, I keep the data in a handy, dandy excel file for future reference.

12.5 yards because that's the maximum distance of what my "winter time range" is, I want a lot of data and at 59 years old I need a scope, I just can't see that front site worth a darn anymore and with the red insert in bright sun, it's just a fuzzy glare.

I've run nothing but cast bullets so far, 240 grain SWC, 250 gr. Leadhead-Keiths, 250 gr. Beartooth bullet WFNGC, 280 gr. BTB WFNGC.

Powders used are old 2400, new 2400, old AA9, Unique, 231 and H110.

For 25-6 shot groups my average is 2.36", the best of 4 shots averages 1.31"

I've got quite a few best of 4 groups at just under 1" with each bullet and more then a few one hole groups, or 5 in one hole and a flyer ruining the group.

20.5 grains of 2400 and the Keith 250 gr. is showing promise with 6 shots into 1.75" and 4 into .75", but I need more data.

Recently I put 5 of the 280 gr. BTB's into one hole of .85", but this is a heavy load and again I need more data to average it out, I try to spread out shooting sessions with these heavy loads to eliminate shooter fatigue and flinch.

8-9 cylinders of heavy loads is getting to be a bit much for me, so I'm reducing that down to half that or less from here on out.

I figure if I double these groups it will give me an idea of what the gun can do at 25 yards, if I could clearly see to shoot that far. (Wish I had a scope on it), but for a 4" gun it makes no sense to me to go through the gyrations to mount one.

If I double it to represent 25 yards, I get 4.7" and 2.6", I think the best of 4 averaging 2.6" probably represents what the gun will do and is eliminating a fair amount of shooter error, like I said, I can't see worth a darn and I'm getting flinchy in my old age.

So I gotta gun that will shoot more or less 2.5" groups at 25 yards on a good day with cast bullets, which is about what I get out of my .45 and 10mm 1911's.

I've heard/read that the new 629's don't like lead due to tight chamber throats, I've tried both .429 and .430" bullets and really can't see any difference between the two… yet for accuracy.

I haven't tried any jacketed loads but I'm anxious to do so.

Bubba, for an old guy like me that is some awesome shooting Bud! I wouldn't even be able to see that dang dot at 25 yards...and one handed with a camera in the other no less!

Way to go!