What's with the fancy gun push-off / pull-back / look around?

MrJT

MrJT

US Veteran
Joined
Apr 27, 2009
Messages
534
Reaction score
419
Location
Scranton PA
I've been shooting for years. I've had a few chances to have some great hands-on training. Both in the Army and afterward.

Granted, it's been a while since I've been in any classes.

Over the past few years, I've been seeing a lot of shooters using some new fangled shooting technique when at the range and especially online.

It goes something like this:

- Stand ready for quick-draw

- Draw the gun, but bring it from the holster straight up along the chest and stop with the gun at pectoral height.

- Push the gun forward from the chest and shoot.

- After shooting the last round, let your gun hang in the air for 1.5 seconds before sharply pulling it straight back into your chest to pectoral height again.

- While the gun is still held at the chest, look around to the left then to the right like you're expecting another dog to come eat out of your bowl.

- Return gun to holster.

I'm sure this is being taught somewhere. I can't see how it improves safety in any fashion. It doesn't decrease it, but I see so many young guys doing it religiously. To the point where if they don't do their draw and drag to chest height smoothly enough, they'll re-holster and do it again.

Personally, it looks borderline tacticool to me, but I haven't been privy to the new ways of shooting.

I'm assuming it has to do with gun retention, but DANG these guys are so dramatic about it.

Share the secret with an old man who might not look cool enough on the range? Or who is needlessly endangering others by not following these quick, jerky procedures. Or who, perhaps, by not hunching over his gun and looking around like a rabid beast is likely to have someone sneak up behind him and steal his gun out of his hands.

:confused:

OK, I'm throwing some snark in there. Again I assume this is being taught, I just don't quite get why.
 
Register to hide this ad
You're right, its being taught. It's taught in those stages which is why it's being used in those stages, I think. No one fluid movement; its draw, raise, grip with weak hand, present, aim and fire. Then reverse it to re holster.
That's fine to learn it but once you do, take the stops out of it and do it all together without the stages.
Not to change the subject, but it bugs me how a shows' host always retracts and locks the slide open when showing a new gun.
Don't they insure there's no ammo around before filming? Do they distrust themselves that much?
I can't ever tell what the gun really looks like because of that new habit.
I understand safety, but that's going a little too far for me. They're not at the range, after all.
 
Last edited:
The latter move, which you seem most upset with, is called "checking your six." Prior to holstering your firearm, you are determining if all threats are gone, especially those behind you which may have appeared after you engaged the threat in front of you. Very common training technique. What, the Army didn't teach you to look behind you?
 
Muss Muggins said:
What, the Army didn't teach you to look behind you?
Click to expand...

Turning your head side to side while still facing forward leaves the majority of your "six" unchecked. ;)

Not how we were taught to secure our position. We weren't taught a certain routine. We were taught to check for anymore threats.

For example, after firing, I'd look to my left as a (right handed shooter), turn clockwise to put my left arm / foot more toward my prior target while being able to now turn my head to the right and actually see not only my right, BUT actually behind me, covering 360 degrees. But that's just how we were taught, cover 360 degrees, not just say 270 like this technique allots for.

It's also something I don't have to practice every magazine.
 
Scan right scan left check your six. This is what we teach in OK law enforcement. After EVERY string of fire. It is intended to help break tunnel vision after a deadly force encounter and get you to check for other threats. You have to watch the shooters though and make sure they are actually looking and not just going thru the motions. As for the weapon presentation from the holster to the threat and back to the holster we also teach that basic technique. It is very easy to teach and cuts out a LOT of unnecessary movement in the draw. After e few thousand reps it is very fluid.
 
I have an entertaining thing I like to do here on The Battery Oaks Range. When I see folks doing these things I will go behind them and pull my shirt up and sometimes pants down and stand just in their line of sight. After they are done with their "exercise" I ask them what they saw when they were checking their 6. Never had one see anything. Not much point in wobbling your head around if you don't actually LOOK. I tell people who visit us that if their safety is only secured when they rope down a wall , firing full auto, this probably isn't the place for them. If you want to feel safe going to the Wally World after dark or your ATM, we can help. Ask these folks what they see sometime. In our experience they DON'T.
 
Taticool

I saw some guys doing these moves. They even have a drill, that
they lean on target and empty gun into it. They run in to anybody
with " combat " experience, they are dead. I probably works out
good on 130lb dopers with wicked looking knives, not so good if
they have a shot gun.
 
Watching all those more or less (to me) exaggerated moves reminds me of Katas as used in the martial arts.

Drawing and reholstering the way it is now shown is far from what I learned back in the 70s.

To old and curmudgeonly to change now as the old ways is very second nature. :D Just to even be more obstinate I use what is know is McGee Turret Stance instead of Weaver! I have taught both back way back when I was an instructor but prefer the turret!
 
As described, that's classic -- and widely disseminated and proven -- Gunsite technique. Sounds like you observed someone a bit stiff and over-deliberate with it: could be new; working fundamentals; slightly too "serious" about it all; or a competitive shooter where crisp "form" seems de rigueur, as opposed to the subtler combat application of the same technique.

Once well-learned and incorporated, it's fluid and fast -- faster and safer than the old low bowling ball or high duelist sweeps. Keeps the gun in safe retention, able to shoot fast from in tight or extended, least amount of time with the muzzle on anything but the target, and at the ready for follow-up fire if needed while attentive to surroundings.

Good stuff. ;)
 
A few thoughts on the topic.

The drill is meant to pattern your thinking and actions, exaggerated to make it more indelibly fixed in your memory. The idea is that when you are stressed, what you practiced is what you will do. We all get that!

Each of the pieces or stages are supposed to be meaningful. We all get that also.

Why it looks so stupid is what we are all trying to figure out!

It would look good in a line dance parody video tho'
 
Our Reactive Shooting (insert Point Shooting) instructors trained us that "perfect practice makes perfect." Start out at a slow or half speed. We'd practice what many of you are poking fun at for at least half an hour just dry firing. Instructors would watch and coach us on our grip and presentation.

Live fire sessions started out the same way...slow, with an increased tempo. Nowadays, I start the same way at the range: slow and deliberate for a few minutes. It worked for me, and it's what I taught at my agency after I took the course. I was in my mid 50's when I took the course, so I had a few years of old habits and muscle memory to unlearn. IMO, the newer method is a superior close quarters defensive shooting technique compared to what I was taught "back in the day." You may feel otherwise. Don't knock it until you've tried it.
 
Last edited:
The point of that draw technique is to get the pistol in a firing position ASAP. One gets it up and pointed/aimed in the direction of the threat immediately, so shots can be fired from retention and as you push forward to a full extension of the arms, with the sights in your vision throughout that period. I suspect you are seeing someone doing it as a drill to form muscle memory, and the analogy above to a kata is not all that bad. The choreographed turning is likewise part of it (don't be in a hurry to re-holster), but as noted, if one does not observe while doing so, it is not being done soundly. There are ways to train past that - instructors who carry signs with different directions, hold up a certain number of fingers to signal the course of fire, etc.
 
I look back at what I learned at Gunsite in 1978 and how more recent training has modified those things (I don't use "Weaver" stance any longer is the biggest thing). I agree strongly with Doug M. about getting the gun into action FAST and reholstering SLOW.

As far as getting the whole thing accomplished I like what the current instructor I train with says-he's showing ONE way to do things, not necessarily THE way.

I also break my range trips into those times I do drills and other times I'm just shooting for fun/trying a new purchase out. I do agree it's very important to be aware of what's happening around you and to look around as long as you really SEE what/who's around you. Bad guys frequently have accomplices, sometimes waiting to cover they're other bad actor's actions. Don't assume anything, especially that the bad guy is alone.

Lee's little trick is an excellent method to check if the student is really looking or just going through the motions.
 
From what I've heard - looking (actually turn whole head) side to side is to break "tunnel vision" effect. Apparently under lots of stress our vision become very "tunneled", so by turning head one is compensating for lack of peripheral vision. It's kind of teaching to shoot center mass in defensive situations.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Latest posts

Back
Top