When did a gun being old become a bad thing?

[GatorFarmer]

I sometimes see ads on Armslist seeking trades. Lately I see statements along the lines of "no old guns ","nothing more than three /five/etc years old "...At the same time I find casual aquaintances calling some guns that I consider young to be antiques - guns from the 70s. Meanwhile guns from the 90s become "old ". My century plus old Krags really puzzle people since I regard them as perfectly good working rifles.

I spent years with the simple conviction that in many cases older guns were better guns. If the Krag has already huntednfor 114 years....why wouldn't I want it instead of something made last week ? And if my 1911 has been running since 1978 - I was born in 74 - why isn't that better than one made in 2008 - that some people would already call old....

Yet it seems I will forever be explaining that a pre 10 M&P made in 1949 is not an antique at all.

Maybe my Martini Enfield will come this week. It was made in 1886 and refurbed just before Queen Victoria died. Might need a little oil...

 

[NashvilleMike]

You won't get an argument here. I love old things. Old guns, old women, old jokes, old guitars, and that old-time religion.

 

[vytoland]

i'll take all the "old" S&W revolvers i can get.

 

[NFrameFred]

People who are not taught history and given a sense of where they came from and why things are the way they are tend to be self absorbed and cling to the the provincial things they know. We have a vast number of people these days who were raised to believe they are special and unique and deserving and whatever came before their time could not possibly be as good as what they have now. Small wonder the tables with the plastic fantastic wonder pistols are mobbed at gun shows and that crowd runs by the tables with "all that old stuff on it". More power to 'em . . . leaves the aisle open for me and the rest of you codgers . . .

 

[Vulcan Bob]

Speaking of the "plastic fantastic guns" I wonder how they will age? The new nylon and such seem to be durable but I wonder if they survive sixty years or more will they still be serviceable? Of course the new plasma blasters will render the question moot I suppose.

 

[sophie]

Man after reading this everything I've got is real old. Me too I guess.

_________
James

 

[amazingflapjack]

Y'all hush!! Let'm blunder ahead with their "new is better" illusion. It just means more for us!!

 

[jaykellogg]

I recently gave my son a couple of guns. One is a 1906 Winchester made in 1913 and the other is my first ever gun a Colt Woodsman I bought used before he was born. I have an LC Smith that is quite a bit older than I am and a Savage 99 that is close to my age (born 1945).

 

[Sprefix]

The older I get, the better my tastes become. Most younger people think they are invincible but don't plan for the future or realize what history has taught. They are driven by the gadget of the moment as they have a throw-it-away mentality. I hope and pray that the young invincible stud comes to ME to sell grandpas' guns...CHEAP, because they are OLD!!!!!

 

[P&R Fan]

I prefer the older stuff, after all, I'm the P&R Fan and there ain't been any P&R revolvers in 30years.
I still shoot them, and carry them, although I still use the newer stuff. Right now I have my Glock 23 in my Kramer Confidant shirt holster and my S&W M340PD in my left front pocket. When it gets a bit cooler I'll start carrying my K,L and N-Frame revolvers on my hip again, and feel totally well-armed.
I also like older Women (Missus P&R Fan is 4 1/2 years my senior) and I'm a huge Elvis and Sinatra fan. My favorite movie is Casablanca and my truck is a '65 Ford. I also still listen to 8-Track tapes.
Liking older stuff don't make you old. I just like quality.
Jim

 

[GatorFarmer]

Not too long ago I traded into an older plastic fantastic gun. It is a H&K P9S. The date code is 1976. I think they were discontinued around 1986. Random onlookers think it is new and sleek. Until I tell them how old it is. Then it is just strange and old. It seems to have aged well.

I think the gun makers have opted to be like cell phones and computers - always push something new...however marginal the upgrade. Make it seem to be the only cool thing is to have new stuff constantly. I suppose I am of the last generation to not associate a gun with any electronic add ons and to think of them as lasting forever.

A guy I know had a 300 Win Mag rifle as his new toy for a time. Only thing is....there really wasn't any animal that required such in this state. Now I see new ARs offered in a .30 caliber variant. I find myself wondering if the .323 is really any better for hunting than the old 30-40 or 303.... chambered in rifles so old that they are legally essentially not considered firearms.

One of my ARs is even "old" by recent standards. It was made in 1985.

 

[labworm]

Old things not me, I still have the boxes that held two Kenwood speakers I purchased in Vietnam in 68. Still have the speakers which are still hooked up. I guess I am not included in the throw away crowd.

 

[chud333]

I would'nt give ya' a nickel for most of the "New" stuff
out there right now. Let em' have that plastic all they
want. I want good old American Steel. Don't matter to
me how "old" it is.

Chuck

 

[Frank46]

I also have a fasination for old guns. Krag, springfield,garand,M1 carbine and a few others. My ex landlord's kid was rebuilding an engine and asked if i had any old cleaning rods with brushes to let him clean the oil galleries. I grabbed a couple and we started rodding the oil galleries and a suprising amout of junk came out. He asked what was the oldest gun I had. At the time it was an 1886 portugese kropatscheck in 8x60r caliber. He said it wouldn't kill anyone dead with it. I replied it would certainly kill you today as well back in 1886 when it was made. If only our firearms could talk to us. Frank

 

[bluegrassarms]

Those guys don't know much.

Signed,

A pre-64 Winchester 94

One of the coolest things about the great, best made guns is how well they stand the test of time. Stuff that contains explosions works as well as it did when it was made 100 years ago. That's too cool.

The only place where "new" guns have an edge is in the focus on conceal carry. J-frames more than hold their own, but the older semiautos in conceal sizes were in much smaller calibers. I love the Colt Vest Pocket 1908 for design, but you can't get it in 380 like a Kel Tec or LCP.

Give 'em my email. I'll take every one of those old guns off their hands, no charge.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

.

I think the gun makers have opted to be like cell phones and computers - always push something new...however marginal the upgrade. Make it seem to be the only cool thing is to have new stuff constantly. I suppose I am of the last generation to not associate a gun with any electronic add ons and to think of them as lasting forever.

You've hit the nail on the head. Guns by and large do not wear out. Joe average buys a gun and it will last him for the rest of his life. The gunmaker has lost a customer as Joe no longer needs a gun-he has one therefore he is out of the pool of gunbuyers. Unless he buys another. How do you get him to do that??? Make him believe he NEEDS TO!!! By any means-make him believe he NEEDS to buy another gun for any reason that works. New is better, the apocolypse is coming, they are going to ban them, Chuck Norris carries it, whatever.

So all these dummies buy all these new guns while the older ones are perfectly good. Which leaves a pool of older guns for all us dummies who buy them for our own reasons
So which pool of dummies is smarter.......... us or them???????
Disclaimer: This is written as the poster awaits not one but two pre lock 638's to arrive at his local transfer FFL

 

[JJEH]

When did a gun being old become a bad thing?

I don't think that is the case.

Some old(er) stuff is really better, nicer, cooler, more reliable than new age stuff,... you name it.

But not all new stuff is bad. Guess to find the right mix is the name of the game...

 

[Arik]

Depending on how far you go. Modern guns (to me modern is within the last 30 +/- years. Of course not every gun fits this criteria) have better metallurgy. For instance, you can get a Martini Enfield falling block 303 which is over a 100 years old and still hunt with it but you wouldn't be able to shoot modern 303 from it because of higher pressures. Same reason i got rid of mt Garand. I couldnt use just any 3006 it had to be Garand specific and the cost was too much. Same goes for handguns. Not a good idea to shoot +p or higher pressure ammo out of some of them. I want a firearm that i can go to any store, pick up a box of ammo and go shoot without having to look for specific ammo.

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[mg357]

The very first two guns i ever owned where old guns and i loved them.

 

[GatorFarmer]

Depending on how far you go. Modern guns (to me modern is within the last 30 +/- years. Of course not every gun fits this criteria) have better metallurgy. For instance, you can get a Martini Enfield falling block 303 which is over a 100 years old and still hunt with it but you wouldn't be able to shoot modern 303 from it because of higher pressures. Same reason i got rid of mt Garand. I couldnt use just any 3006 it had to be Garand specific and the cost was too much. Same goes for handguns. Not a good idea to shoot +p or higher pressure ammo out of some of them. I want a firearm that i can go to any store, pick up a box of ammo and go shoot without having to look for specific ammo.

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Martini Enfield actions have been tested to 60,000 psi. They - assuming good condition - will easily handle commercial 303 ammunition. Old Remingtom rolling blocks are also quite durable. I will simply use inexpensive Prvi ammo leftover from the mutant Lee Enfield that I had.

Krags have indeed suffered in ammo availability and cost. Perhaps other folks can join me in pestering Prvi to load it. That is how 8mm Lebel made a come back.Chamber pressures have remained largely the same. In theory metal fatigue may start to become an issue but I have not heard of it. New Krag bbls are being made for those actions in odd archaic wildcats to be returned to life. A couple of small companies do load for in the dollar a round range.

An easy fix exists for a Garand gas system that will broaden the range of what they can eat.

Officially in the United States anything made after 1/1/1899 is generally considered a modern gun.

Disagreement exists owing to a change in industry standard as to what pressures made for plus p in 38 special as to whether an old pre 10 M&P will last with plus p offerings. I think of any post WW2 guns (of reputable make) as relatively young and of mature metallurgy if steel.