When did carrying 5 rounds in a Colt SAA become the norm?

[sigp220.45]

I know it is accepted practice now to carry an empty chamber under the hammer of a Colt SAA, but when did it start?

Prior to the appearance of the SAA, single action percussion guns were perfectly safe to carry fully loaded. They came with a either a notch or a pin between the chambers on which to rest the hammer. Even my Ruger Old Army has one, and is safe to carry fully loaded.

So - what is the earliest CONTEMPORARY reference to carrying your new hogleg with only five rounds? When the Army got them was there a manual or written directive as to how they should be carried? I bet they carried them with six. Any guidance from Colt? Contemporary magazine articles? Anything?

I know writers in this century (Keith, etc) have made reference to how it was back in the day, but I personally suspect these guns were carried loaded to the gills as a matter of course until well past the frontier days.

I would love to see some reference from before 1900 to the old load one, skip one, load four, cock and lower routine. Or any other mention of what is now the accepted practice.

Since every thread needs a picture, here is my only Colt SAA.

And some of the cap and ball six-shooters that got me thinking......

 

[crsides]

Maverick carried a $100 bill in an empty chamber, so I know he loaded only 5.

Charlie

 

[texmex]

I think it became the norm the first time someone dropped a Single Action Army onto a hard surface and it went off. I have not seen an actual reference from the time period but I'll keep looking. I became a peace officer in 1974 and there were deputies who carried their Smith & Wesson double action revolvers with an empty under the hammer. One of them (he carried a Smith & Wesson Model 19), I had to take to the range, cock his 357 and tap the trigger until the hammer fell (with the revolver pointed down range) to convince him it was safe. He was amazed that it did not go off. He thought it was broken and had to shoot it to convince himself that it still would fire at all. Then we showed him how the hammer mounted firing pin was blocked from reaching the primer unless the trigger was held back.

My father bought a Single Action Army 38-40 that was pre 1899. When we took it out and fired it, the empties were difficult to eject. Close examination of the cylinder revealed that there was a peening of the thinnest part between the chambers. We figured out that was right where the firing pin would rest if you lowered the hammer between two cartridges. Some old timer really wanted to carry six rounds in the old thumbuster but did not want to chance having the hammer down on cartridge. He must have done this a lot to cause the peening of the cylinder. Probably not too good for the firing pin either.

You make a good point about being able to carry six in the percussion revolvers with the pins between the chambers, but lots of the original revolvers have the pins broken or missing. When the cartridge revolvers came out, they may not have worried about carrying one less round ready to go because they seemed so fast to reload compared to the cap and ball guns.

I asked one old deputy who carried a Single Action Army about it being slower to reload than a double action. He said it never ran out of bullets. He told me that if he was in an extended engagement, he would leave the loading gate open, fire a round, eject an empty and load a round. That way he never ran it dry. Same way with a lever action carbine. Fire a round, load a round. That way it was always topped off if they tried to flank you or rush you.

 

[Rpg]

I believe Wyatt Earp is quoted by Stuart N. Lake saying no one carried 6.

 

[lawandorder]

January 9th 1876 Wyatt learned a painless lesson when his Colt SAA fell out of his holster , landed hammer down and discharged.
Wichita, Kansas while he was serving as a City Police Officer.

Baxter County, Arkansas Sheriff E. W. Mooney was not so lucky. While returning a prisoner from Indian Territory on 5 October 1907 his revolver fell out and resulted in a fatal wound to the Sheriff. It occurred as the passenger train pulled into the depot at Holdenville , I.T.

 

[ShivasIrons]

Weapons not being drop safe is nothing new

Just ask Sig and Honor Guard...

 

[nachogrande]

PER, "THE DUKE"

"IF YOU FEEL YOU NEED 6, LOAD SIX". To answer the WHEN question, I'll guess since they were made, or shortly after a few cowboys whose day today activities could get a little rough shot themselves. Struttin around town, 6??? heck maybe even take the hammer thong off. On a cattle drive a flap holster & loading 5 would seem to make sense. Personal preference existed back then too.

 

[Walkingwolf]

The navy, and army originally did not have pins to lower the hammer on the originals. The notches between the cylinders of the Remy 58 were for the purpose of a fully loaded gun.

There were two methods of safely carrying a SA cartridge revolver. Hammer down firing pin between case heads which would not work with the 45 colt cartridge. Hence hammer down on an empty chamber. I believe the shoefield cartridge had a reduced rim allowing the FP to rest between the rims.

 

[LoboGunLeather]

The original Colt percussion revolvers featured a safety stop position between the percussion nipples, allowing the hammer to be dropped between the chambers for safe carry while fully loaded.

The transition to cartridge revolvers eliminated this option due to the size and dimensions of the cartridge case heads and rims. The revolver lockwork remained essentially unchanged, with relatively small and weak sear engagement points. Thus the practice of carrying with the hammer down over an empty chamber came into practice as a means of avoiding the dangers of inadvertent discharge due to impact upon the hammer (such as from dropping the revolver).

On the range there is usually no problem involved with loading all six chambers of the SAA revolver, then shooting away. But if you are carrying in a holster or pocket it remains a very good idea to allow the hammer to rest on an empty chamber. When loading you should take the revolver to half-cock, open the loading gate, load one chamber, skip one chamber, load the next 4 chambers, then take the revolver to full cock and drop the hammer on the empty chamber.

If you expect imminent attack, go ahead and load all six chambers and keep the revolver on half-cock, then do your best not to drop the gun or bump it against anything that might cause the hammer-sear engagement to be compromised.

 

[keith44spl]

Well,
I load jest 5 with the hammer restin on the empty chamber.

Those that have ever had their ol hoss have a good shake while being saddled,
will tell ya, if you have loaded six, that if the stirrup slides off the saddle seat and
falls on your SAA hammer it can ruin yur day right quick.

If I have the need to load er all the way around, I let the hammer nose down between cartridge heads.

I use my single action quite often.

My favorite, a 2nd Gen 44 Special

.

 

[sigp220.45]

I load with 5, also. I just don't think it was common practice in the Old West.

The Lake book was published in 1931 and is generally believed to be largely made up.

The fact there were plenty of dropped guns going off (even by Earp) long after the guns were introduced shows folks were still loading with 6.

I bet a lot of people carried over the habit of resting the hammer between chambers (as noted above) from cap and ball days, or just didn't worry about it.

What did the Army do? I'm sure even then they had written procedures.

When did Colt first (if ever) advise to only load 5?

 

[ISCS Yoda]

Since the Peacemaker or Colt SAA is dated to 1873 I'd wager it was 1873. The first time someone dropped a fully loaded one and it went off would have started that story making the rounds. I don't imagine Colt sold those with lawyer warnings but you can bet it was really, really soon after their introduction that word got around.

I think you'd lose your bet if you you think the US Cavalry didn't find out really quickly about the load five rule. If someone KNOWS he is headed into a gunfight then loading six would make sense; otherwise, your suspicion that "these guns were carried loaded to the gills as a matter of course until well past the frontier days" is demonstrably incorrect.

There is history out there if you care to do the research.

 

[Rpg]

Years ago I was driving a heard of horses from winter pasture to summer.

One of the other guys carried a SSA with 5 loaded, but his idea of how to do it was to leave the first chamber (the one that would come under the hammer when you cocked the gun) empty and rest the firing pin over the cartridge that would come up 6th.

I asked him why he did that.

He said everybody knew that it was for safety. No amount of discussion would move him.

I stayed as far away from him as I could for the next 3 days.

 

[sigp220.45]

Since the Peacemaker or Colt SAA is dated to 1873 I'd wager it was 1873. The first time someone dropped a fully loaded one and it went off would have started that story making the rounds. I don't imagine Colt sold those with lawyer warnings but you can bet it was really, really soon after their introduction that word got around.

I think you'd lose your bet if you you think the US Cavalry didn't find out really quickly about the load five rule. If someone KNOWS he is headed into a gunfight then loading six would make sense; otherwise, your suspicion that "these guns were carried loaded to the gills as a matter of course until well past the frontier days" is demonstrably incorrect.

There is history out there if you care to do the research.

Still - no contemporary reference from the day.

Since at least one citation above shows a lawman shooting someone with a dropped gun in 1907 I'd say it is demonstrably correct that many didn't carry on an empty chamber.

Again, I think it is the right thing to do. But there apparently isn't any proof (book, magazine article, Army manual, correspondence from Colt) that loading with five rounds was the common (or even recommended) practice of the day. Its not like it was the stone age - there should be some mention.

 

[jpage]

Well, Having read just about everything related to Custer and the Little Bighorn, I know that 7th Cavalry troopers carried 18 .45LC rounds.

 

[Wyo]

I don’t know when the practice started, but a U.S.Army Ordnance Memoranda No. 22 relating to the use and manufacture of U.S. small arms and printed in 1878 addressed the Colt revolver and stated as follows:

“ To load the revolver - hold the revolver in the left hand, muzzle downward. Half cock it with the right hand and open the gate. Insert the cartridges with the right hand. Close the gate and bring the hammer to the safety notch. Keep it there until the revolver is to be fired.”

So, official Army doctrine at that time, five years after adoption of the Colt revolver, decreed it be fully loaded. I assume some individuals started carrying five earlier than this but the Army did not. I will research further to see if and when the recommendation changed.

 

[Eddie Southgate]

I know it is accepted practice now to carry an empty chamber under the hammer of a Colt SAA, but when did it start?

Prior to the appearance of the SAA, single action percussion guns were perfectly safe to carry fully loaded. They came with a either a notch or a pin between the chambers on which to rest the hammer. Even my Ruger Old Army has one, and is safe to carry fully loaded.

So - what is the earliest CONTEMPORARY reference to carrying your new hogleg with only five rounds? When the Army got them was there a manual or written directive as to how they should be carried? I bet they carried them with six. Any guidance from Colt? Contemporary magazine articles? Anything?

I know writers in this century (Keith, etc) have made reference to how it was back in the day, but I personally suspect these guns were carried loaded to the gills as a matter of course until well past the frontier days.

I would love to see some reference from before 1900 to the old load one, skip one, load four, cock and lower routine. Or any other mention of what is now the accepted practice.

Since every thread needs a picture, here is my only Colt SAA.

And some of the cap and ball six-shooters that got me thinking......

Probably started about the time some guys half cold backed horse bucked his new colt out of his holster and it went off and shot him or the horse because the firing pin was setting on top of a live round . That would have caused me to rethink how I loaded mine .

Eddie

PS : Have owned an original Navy Colt and a 1860 Army colt and neither one ever had a safety pin between chambers . Remington's had notches .

Correction : My Navy has no pins and never had any , my Army has small dimples that could have been pins at one time . If the dimples between chambers on the Army ever worked as any form of a safety they do not now . The groove in the hammer will not lock into the dimple/pin . when the hammer is placed on the dimple/pin it is easy to rotate the cylinder past it to the nipple . These are original Colts not replicas .

 

[Bat Guano]

Some years back I was reading old microfilm copies of the local paper, which dated back to about 1882 or so. There was an account of a pistol going off while saddling a horse, as per Keith44spl's post above. At the least it was considered newsworthy. If that stirrup falls down and hits the hammer, and a round is underneath, well...

As I recall, the old SAA also had a tendency to land on the hammer if dropped.

 

[Wyo]

U.S. Army Cavalry Drill Regulations published in 1891, at p. 58, instruct that the revolver be fully loaded and the hammer lowered thereafter. As above, no mention of loading only five rounds. Taken with my post above, I can only conclude that the Army NEVER officially instructed its soldiers to load only five rounds. Every manual I can find that addresses the operation of the Colt revolver says it should be fully loaded.

 

[texmex]

U.S. Army Cavalry Drill Regulations published in 1891, at p. 58, instruct that the revolver be fully loaded and the hammer lowered thereafter. As above, no mention of loading only five rounds. Taken with my post above, I can only conclude that the Army NEVER officially instructed its soldiers to load only five rounds. Every manual I can find that addresses the operation of the Colt revolver says it should be fully loaded.

I guess that reveals another reason the military uses flap over holsters. They offer some protection from the weather, they protect the hammer from other objects (stirrups!) and they keep the gun from falling out of the holster.