When good dogs do bad things

[307-Niner]

This one is tearing me up on the inside, I just don't know how to handle this one.

About 6 years ago, my wife & I adopted a rescue Rottweiler. She is our 4th rottie, the other 3 got old and are in doggy heaven. This one was found abandoned with a litter of puppies, starving. None of the puppies made it. When we took her in, she was skin & bones, did not trust any people or other animals, and was really snarly and "guarded" food. But she took to me immediately.

It took a while, but we socialized her and worked with her every day. Back then we had 7 dogs and 4 cats, and a big house on 5 acres. She has been a great dog. Loves people, including small children, loves riding in the truck, doesn't need a leash ever, listens to every command. Possibly the best & smartest dog I've ever had.

Fast forward a couple of years. We had a cat named 8 Ball. He had a big ole 8 right on his side. He was a lot of fun, very acrobatic cat. Liked chasing insects & birds. One day he wandered off & never came back. I like to think that he found a happy home in a neighboring subdivision, and made a young family happy. That, or a bear got him. (This is when I lived in Alaska).

Fast forward to last week. I was perusing the local classifieds on FB, and I see this picture of a kitten with a great big 9 on his side. "Free kittens to good homes". What are the odds..... Showed the wife, called the lady, and piled into the truck. Drove an hour each way, and brought home "Niner".

This little guy is a lot of fun. When I get home from work, he greets me before the dogs do, when I'm taking off my boots. He comes to me by name when I call him over. When I wake up from sleeping, I find him sleeping against my arm, or the back of my neck. I've had cats before, but never really liked them that much. This one is different somehow. Anyways.....

Yesterday morning, while I was at work, my wife calls me. She's shaken & upset. She's on her way to the vet with a bleeding kitten. Apparently, she fed the dogs after I left for work. The cat got into my Rottweiler's food, and she grabbed him by the head and flung him across the room. My wife was horrified, the dog ran and hid, knowing she done a bad thing.

So my kitten is at the vet still, until Monday. His lower jaw broken, his skull crushed above his left eye, cheek crushed below his left eye, and left eye lower eyelid is bulged out. They wired his jaw & braced it with an interesting little contraption. They cleaned up his wounds & gave him some medications. He is being fed by a syringe.

I went with the wife to go check on him today. Man, he looks rough. As soon as I walked into that room he was climbing the door on the cage. Picked him up, and he just laid there purring. After a couple minutes, he climbed up to my shoulder and sat there for a while, leaning on my neck, purring. Then he decided it was play time. LOL, this cat looks like hell, and he wants to play. Go figure. The vet is impressed. They are going to keep him over the weekend to make sure he can eat & heal properly. They know better than I, what to watch for and what to do if something goes wrong. And his skull is very fragile, yet he likes to jump off things.

So now my moral dilemma, if it isn't already obvious. Shall I keep my rescued Rottweiler, or let her go? If I keep her, I need some ideas about training her in regards to protection of food. I don't want this type of thing to happen again, ever.

 

[Stevie]

It's a dog/cat thing....if you're a cat..stay away from the dog's food

 

[timn8er]

Man that's hard to say...one thing, though; cats are pretty smart, I doubt he'll let the rottie get within ten feet of him after that last experience!

 

[307-Niner]

My dog, Sokie.


And here's Niner.


And here's Niner riding in the truck when we first picked him up. I've never seen a cat that liked riding.

 

[BobC357]

They have behavior training for dogs. We rescued a neglected dog that didn't have any life for his first 2 years. He got leftovers if there were any and lived on a chain facing a brick wall. He'd never seen a treat or a toy. He needed work -- lots of work.

He's a totally different dog today. It required a behavior trainer -- not an obedience or trick trainer. He's almost 3 today and only has a few traits that need a bit more reining in. Find one and talk with them.

 

[307-Niner]

I have had a lot of pets, and I learned a powerful method. We don't punish unwanted or bad behavior. Instead, we reward the good behaviors and actions with love, petting, & playing. In this extreme, she did get spanked by Mom. She was so scared when it happened, that she pissed and crapped herself.

But I need help on this one. Not sure where I can find a behavioral trainer in small-town farm country Wyoming, but I will try.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

It happened once, not sure what training will result in a reasonable expectation it will not happen again. The cat is lucky it survived the first round. I'd make a choice of one or the other. Good luck.

 

[CO_Kid]

While I believe that your dog is good with kids, as you said, I almost doubt that your dog would be good with kids in that situation. I get the feeling that if a child was the one that got near the food dish, he/she would be bitten too. It's a choice only you can make.

 

[islamoradamark]

some situations have a habit of repeating just be glad it wasnt a family member.

 

[Cooter Brown]

Is the dog still food aggressive with you and your wife? In other words can you walk up and take the bowl away while it's eating?

 

[vito]

I think its a good idea for every dog to be trained when they are very young that it is OK for humans to take their food, their food dish, to interfere in their eating, etc. so that they become used to such behavior. We have a puppy right now that our grandkids will sit next to on the floor, reach into the food bowl, and hand feed the food to the puppy. I am confident that when this puppy is fully grown she will be totally accepting of human interference in her eating without an aggressive reaction. But with a dog with deeply ingrained fear of losing their food, such training may be difficult or impossible. I think the easiest solution for you is to only feed your dog in an area where the cat cannot approach him and/or isolate the cat whenever it is feeding time for the dog. If feeding time is the only time that the dog gets protective and aggressive to interference, then there is no real need to get rid of either the dog or cat.

That said, personally I will not tolerate a pet that is destructive, dangerous or otherwise outside of the normal limits of behavior despite attempts at training otherwise. I do not believe that just because you have taken an animal into your home you are now obligated to keep that animal no matter what.

I had a Wheaton Terrier years ago that was becoming more and more aggressive to strangers despite intensive efforts at training him otherwise, so we got rid of him. My son had a Golden Retriever that was seemingly un-trainable, and was doing thousands of dollars in damage to furniture, clothing, even eyeglasses over and over again and he would not get rid of the dog. Each of us needs to decide what our limits and expectations for a pet are. It may be painful to give up a pet, but it might be more painful to keep that pet.

 

[Rangerpat]

It's a hard call to make, keep the cat away from the dog food is a simple answer but there may be more to it.

All animals are naturally protective of their food but in the case of Sokie being starved in her early life, she has even deeper protective emotions.
See how Niner and Sokie interact when they are both at home together. If Sokie shows any signs of aggression towards Niner, then you will know one of them has to go to a new home.

Years ago I owned a dog that snapped at my 2 year-old son's face, the next day the dog was gone.

 

[Arik]

If that was the only problem then maybe your dog is food aggressive. Keep both, train the dog to not be food aggressive and in the mean time keep the kitten away while the dogs are eating.

 

[gdnagle]

Never been in your situation and hope I never will. AAMOF I won't as I'm too old to get any new animals. When I'm gone I don't know how they will be treated.

You have to say to yourself, was the dog protecting it's food or was this the straw that broke the camels back from jealousy. It could happen again. For me I would not get rid of a animal I've had for awhile. Like I've told my wife and kids. You take in a animal your saying your going to love and care for it for life.

Your situation is like having a animal that attacked one of your children. Will it happen again. Then what will you do with it. If you give it to a rescue and it has the aggressive tendencies toward it's food or other animals or people it won't be adoptable. They may have to put it down.

Tough decision for you glad I won't have to make it. I guess your big decision is if you would be able to keep them separated while your not around them.

The dog probably has more then 6 years left and the cat could live to over 15 years, we had one that lasted almost 20. Maybe the cat has learned to stay away, but then again would you want to come home one day to see shreds of cat around the house.

It's tough tube feed a animal, don't ask how I know. You nay want to keep her in a cage while your not around so the dogs don't bother her as she is vulnerable right now and to keep her calm. Make sure you flush the tube with clean water as you don't want to leave any food in it to get contaminated. It's been awhile since I did it but I had to give my little girl water through the tube also as her jaw was wired shut, plus I had to give her fluids the Sub Q rout.

Good luck on your decision deciding which you like better.

 

[BarbC]

I had a Rottweiler who was a good dog. I showed him in obedience and conformation. He was excellent with people. However, he had a strong prey drive and killed all our chickens and two of our cats. My ex beat the dog with the dead cat and the dog never did it again.

Not that I would recommend that strategy. If you want to keep them both, keep the cats away from the dog's food and step in like the alpha you are to correct any aggressive behavior.

 

[keninnavarre]

I doubt your dog will ever tolerate another animal,or small children, near her food while she is eating. I would find a way around it, were it my dog. I've been through this myself. My dog was the sweetest thing you could imagine but became a demon with a bowl of food in front of her. She was a rescue and had a hard life prior to coming home to us. I or my son were the only people that fed that dog and I stood there til she finished eating then put her bowl away. I did that for her entire life. I couldn't have kept the dog if I had small children in the house.

 

[Triathloncoach]

I've been breaking up fights between my female dogs for 20plus years. Of course 2 were rescued female rotties. My male rotty loved absolutely everything. Except horses, but we managed.

You need to positively enforce good behavior when they interact well together and hope to head off potentially bad situations.

Animal rules (killing to protect your food) are different than ours. It sounds like your rotty knew what she did was wrong. Work with her. I've spent thousands repairing two old neighbor dog's from my last rotty. She died in April. I'm certain you are paying your vet enough to buy any gun in this classified. Don't give up on your dog. Your cat hopefully learned to stay away from the dog bowls.

I actually have fairly fresh cuts on me from a dog fight I broke up last week. They are working it out.

 

[307-Niner]

Is the dog still food aggressive with you and your wife? In other words can you walk up and take the bowl away while it's eating?

Taking food away from her, or taking her away from he food, was not really possible when we first got her. I think it was week two of having her, when one night we were flipping thru the channels on cable. Happened onto "The Dog Whisperer" with Cesar Milan. My apologies if I spelled your name wrong...

This show was about a dog that was nasty aggressive over food. His advice was, do not take the food away from the dog. Take the dog away from the food. He would feed the dog & let it begin eating. Then he would approach the dog, and be met with teeth snapping at him. Time to remove the dog from the food.

He did not grab the dog & pull away. He used a broom, and covered the food. The dog didn't know what to do. It just stopped and looked at him. Then he commanded the dog to leave, and it did. Repetition stopped the behavior.

We adopted his method, and it took hold in about two weeks. She really hasn't been like this around food for a long time. When we notice her growling or curling her lip at another dog during feeding, we interfere & make her leave the room, leaving the food behind.

We have grand kids and nieces. Sokie loves these kids. Can't leave em alone, licks em, follows em, plays with em. Her nubby little tail never stops wagging. They get into the dog water & food bowls all the time, handing her food & laughing all the time. These kids share all of their food with her, even when we don't want them to. Those babies are her babies, her family, and she protects her family. If the older kids are wrestling around, she can't decide who to protect, so she jumps in between them, and starts barking at both of them. If one of them ends up on the ground, Sokie will sit on that one, and hold that one down & protect. It's hilarious to see.

She does like to play rough. She is soft jawed. I trained her to stop playing & sit anytime she hears "Ouch". I test this stop word frequently, it's a 100% thing. When our guests, strangers to her, play with her, I make them say ouch also, and it works.

Anyways, I've never worried about her with the kids. But we are always paying attention anyways, as we have with every dog we have ever owned.

 

[Cooter Brown]

Roger, it sounds like you've got a handle on the food aggression. If I read your post correctly even the grandkids can get into her food when she's eating? You can do the same thing with other animals--you already have with the other dogs. Of course the little cat will likely be terrified of the dog for a long time, maybe forever.

It's good your wife witnessed the event--it sounds like the dog had its first lesson on aggression toward a cat.

I'm all for positive reinforcement, but negative reinforcement has a place. Any aggression toward humans or other animals in one of my dogs is dealt with swiftly and severely in a way the dog will remember. Anything that will get the dog hurt, killed or lost is dealt with in the same way. But I try to maintain an even, quiet tone of voice at all times when dealing with a dog--when I raise my voice my dogs freak. That in itself is a great tool but only works if you refrain from raising your voice unless you need to.

This site has some excellent, soundly thought out and sensible articles on dealing with a host of dog issues.

Leerburg Dog Training | Articles

 

[Smoke]

Is the dog free fed?

If it is stop free feeding it and take the food (dog's and cat's) up after meal time.

I can't speak for any other problems but that should solve this one.