Most of my manuals have +P for 38 special but nothing for 9mm.
I would like to find some for 124 gr bullets.
I would like to find some for 124 gr bullets.
Where to find 9mm +P load data??
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Bruce51
Member
OCD1 I don't know why you would want +P loadings for the 9mm. The 9MM operates at 35,000psi with maximum loads already. The .38special runs about 15,000psi for normal loads and +P going into the 20,000psi range. That is why you won't find the data you are seeking.
However even the new Speer #14 has decent loads for the 9MM that will get you plenty of velocity. Also some of the old manuals have similar and higher loadings you might give a try. With the limited case capacity and high pressure of the 9MM I suggest you stick with data that has been proven to not exceed 35,000psi.
I have tried many loadings of alliant powder over the years. Your question lead me to find some data I had forgotten. Thanks for asking.
Bruce
However even the new Speer #14 has decent loads for the 9MM that will get you plenty of velocity. Also some of the old manuals have similar and higher loadings you might give a try. With the limited case capacity and high pressure of the 9MM I suggest you stick with data that has been proven to not exceed 35,000psi.
I have tried many loadings of alliant powder over the years. Your question lead me to find some data I had forgotten. Thanks for asking.
Bruce
TSQUARED
Member
OCD,
The 9mm is a very hot round to begin with. As the previous post mentioned it operates with factory loadings at ca 35000 psi. That's more than enough oomph for me.
That being said there are some people out there loading 9mm Major with Tru Blue powder at weights way above the maximum recommended. They use once fired cases and do not reload their brass. One reason I no longer pick up brass at USPSA matches where they shoot their open guns in 9mm Major.
The 9mm is a very hot round to begin with. As the previous post mentioned it operates with factory loadings at ca 35000 psi. That's more than enough oomph for me.
That being said there are some people out there loading 9mm Major with Tru Blue powder at weights way above the maximum recommended. They use once fired cases and do not reload their brass. One reason I no longer pick up brass at USPSA matches where they shoot their open guns in 9mm Major.
OP
Why then does Remington sell Golden Saber +p. Speer Gold Dot +P etc??? Seems all the manufacturers sell a +P load. Some even ++P.
Is it all marketing?
This months American Rifleman has a article on the Hornady Critical Defense and the Winchester Supreme Elite PDX1 ammo.
This got me interested in trying to duplicate the +P loads and was my reason for asking.
Is it all marketing?
This months American Rifleman has a article on the Hornady Critical Defense and the Winchester Supreme Elite PDX1 ammo.
This got me interested in trying to duplicate the +P loads and was my reason for asking.
Bruce51
Member
I know that most 115JHP ammo runs about 1100fps in normal 9MM loadings. I don't know what the velocities are of the +P Remingtons or the other brands but it would be interesting to check out. Buffalo Bore does list some +P loads at 1300 and 1400fps with 115JHP and 124 grain weighs. If you check their websight they list the loads. I have shot 115JHP's at over 1300fps using listed loads in the manuals. They are noticably hotter than WWB,PMC or Remington normal loads. They felt so sharp in recoil that I backed off the load when I saw some wear on my gun. So I guess there are some +P loads because they exceed the velocity of the non +P loads that we use for practice. I no longer load at that level as it is just not fun to plink with such a hot load.
Bruce
Bruce
OP
I guess I should have mentioned that I was only interested as a defensive round. I usually carry the Remington Golden Sabers or Gold Dots in either a .380 or 9mm.
In looking at the Remington Website the 9mm Golden Sabers in 124 gr out of a 4" barrel are.
Velocity 1125 energy 349
+P vel 1180 energy 384
A slight increase but I do not know if all things are considered, if it makes any real difference?? My carry 9mm is not a 4' barrel anyway.
Remington.com - Products - Ammunition - Ballistics
In looking at the Remington Website the 9mm Golden Sabers in 124 gr out of a 4" barrel are.
Velocity 1125 energy 349
+P vel 1180 energy 384
A slight increase but I do not know if all things are considered, if it makes any real difference?? My carry 9mm is not a 4' barrel anyway.
Remington.com - Products - Ammunition - Ballistics
Skip Sackett
US Veteran
Use the numbers, go from there!
OCD,
If you use the numbers you have given and go to data sites or manuals, you should be able to find data for +P loads that way.
Case in point:
Hodgdon has a 125gr FMJ load with Longshot that is coming out at 1162. You should be able to use that as a training load for the factory ammo you use.
The Lyman #48 has data for a 125gr JHP that is real close to that with two powders, AA#7 and Blue Dot. (If you know anything at all about me, you know which powder I WOULDN'T be using!
Going to the Alliant website you will find the exact ballistics for the load you mentioned above. 1180fps out of a 4" barrel. The powder? Unique! Imagine that!
There are a few options, let us know what you decide to do!
OCD,
If you use the numbers you have given and go to data sites or manuals, you should be able to find data for +P loads that way.
Case in point:
Hodgdon has a 125gr FMJ load with Longshot that is coming out at 1162. You should be able to use that as a training load for the factory ammo you use.
The Lyman #48 has data for a 125gr JHP that is real close to that with two powders, AA#7 and Blue Dot. (If you know anything at all about me, you know which powder I WOULDN'T be using!
Going to the Alliant website you will find the exact ballistics for the load you mentioned above. 1180fps out of a 4" barrel. The powder? Unique! Imagine that!
There are a few options, let us know what you decide to do!
OP
Thanks Skip. Good info as always. I think Natchez has or had some Golden Saber bullets but gee I would have to find some other stuff to buy to justify the shipping.
Yep, I have almost used up my few lbs of the BD stuff.
Yep, I have almost used up my few lbs of the BD stuff.
Right, Ramshot listed +P loads in one of their manuals but that only meant the pressures were higher than SAAMI spec. Using powder other then theirs you can get better velocity and with lower pressures. Don't fall for the marketing hype.
TSQUARED
Member
1125 fps with a 124 gr. bullet should not be any problem . The W-W 14th Edition reloading manual lists 5.3 gr. WSF as a maximum load with a 124 gr. FMJ at 1115 fps and 32700 psi. The Vihtavouri manual shows loads uo to 1252 fps with their powders.
RoninPhx
Member
a little off the topic
a few years ago i ran into a F.B.I. guy in a local gunstore and we got to talking about the .357sig. He then showed me some 9mm +P+ ammo.
Which i later found a place selling it. On the box is marked a warning it was(from memory) 25% above saami specs.
I would be careful in which pistol i was firing this stuff.
It in essence pushed a 9mm up there into the .357sig territory.
But a lot of pistols are not built for that kind of abuse, and even if they did take it, I cannot immagine a steady diet of them would be helpful.
While I understand the intent of a self defense round, personally i would go down a slightly different tack, and be looking at the bullets side of it, not velocity, as to how well they opened. They are not all equal in that reguard.
a few years ago i ran into a F.B.I. guy in a local gunstore and we got to talking about the .357sig. He then showed me some 9mm +P+ ammo.
Which i later found a place selling it. On the box is marked a warning it was(from memory) 25% above saami specs.
I would be careful in which pistol i was firing this stuff.
It in essence pushed a 9mm up there into the .357sig territory.
But a lot of pistols are not built for that kind of abuse, and even if they did take it, I cannot immagine a steady diet of them would be helpful.
While I understand the intent of a self defense round, personally i would go down a slightly different tack, and be looking at the bullets side of it, not velocity, as to how well they opened. They are not all equal in that reguard.
Fuego
Member
I would work up to the maximum loads in a reloading manual.
My Speer manual #13 gets the best 124 gr. MV out of Blue Dot.
124 Gr. M882 NATO ammo is spec at 1230F/S which is about as hot as any prudent handloader would go in the 9mm and hotter than I am willing to go.
My Speer manual #13 gets the best 124 gr. MV out of Blue Dot.
124 Gr. M882 NATO ammo is spec at 1230F/S which is about as hot as any prudent handloader would go in the 9mm and hotter than I am willing to go.
MrPhil
Member
I have no idea if the following load meets SAAMI specs - it was perfectly safe in my gun but might not be safe in yours - I have no control over how you load - check manufacturer's published load data and work from there - start low and work up - inexperienced handloaders should operate under the supervision of someone with experience.
I copied the above from one of Erich's recent posts. It makes sense to me.
My regular carry load is Remington Golden Saber +P 124 grain. Chrono'd velocity (5 feet from muzzle) out of my 4" Glock 19 is 1129 fps, very close to published velocity. My practice load is 6.6 grains of HS-6 pushing a Montana Gold 124 grain JHP. Measured velocity is 1146 fps. Wolf Primers, OAL 1.115". Definitely snappy but under Hogdgon's max load.
I copied the above from one of Erich's recent posts. It makes sense to me.
My regular carry load is Remington Golden Saber +P 124 grain. Chrono'd velocity (5 feet from muzzle) out of my 4" Glock 19 is 1129 fps, very close to published velocity. My practice load is 6.6 grains of HS-6 pushing a Montana Gold 124 grain JHP. Measured velocity is 1146 fps. Wolf Primers, OAL 1.115". Definitely snappy but under Hogdgon's max load.
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