Who uses a lead hardness tester?

tndrfttom

tndrfttom

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I’ve been casting bullets since about 1969 and in all that time I’ve used the ‘Thumbnail Test’ which seems to have worked OK for the most part. I cast 9mm, .38 and .45 bullets for paper punching, 32-20, 38-55 and 45-70 bullets for ‘Cowboy’ shooting and a variety of .30 to 8mm gas-checked bullets for old military rifles. (I used to shoot a bit of ‘black powder’ but there I was concerned with using dead soft lead – something that isn’t as easy to find as it used to be).

I’m of the opinion that if you have a properly cast (good flat base, consistent weight) and properly sized bullets and drive them at reasonable velocities you can get good accuracy out of most firearms with little or no leading. About the only bullets I harden with line-o-type metal are for 30-06, .303 and 8mm.
I’ve looked at the various cast bullet forums and there seems to be fans of all the current (and out-of-production) lead bullet hardness testers that are out there.

Which brings me to my questions:

Who out there uses some sort of lead hardness tester? Which one? Why do you like it?

Has your lead tester been helpful making consistent bullets or resolving a bullet hardness-related accuracy problem or is finding the hardness of a bullet/alloy more like “gee-wiz” type info?

Thanks for your insights.
 
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I like to experiment and wouldn't be without a hardness tester. I've used an LBT tester for at least thirty years. Direct readout, no conversion tables, just a good, simple, well-built tool, but I don't know if LBT still makes them. You might check the website.

Even if you're going to use only one alloy for all casting, it's still useful information to verify hardness from batch to batch. The fingernail or lead pencil methods may work, but a tester works better.
 
When I began casting I had access to many wheel weights, so In used one alloy for everything. One Christmas Sheriff Santa brought me a Lee tester and I started playing with BHN. I found that BHN, unless at the extremes for bullets, is secondary to bullet to gun fit, but I kept "playing" with alloys/BHN just for fun. My Lee's microscope was hard to deal with and I tried a few "tricks" to get it easier to use but eventually went to a magnifying visor and my calipers. I can very easily see my calipers to measure the dent, just "frame" the dent with the jaws, and use that measurement with the Lee chart. Home bullet casting doesn't need exacting BHN measurements and anything within 1 or 2 BHN points really doesn't matter and I mostly just ballpark my measurements for my alloy. Although I have checked my measurements against some RotoMetals alloy I have purchased and I'm very close and often the same as the foundry measurements...
 
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I don't hardness test because I mainly use known alloys. Like if I use 20:1 lead I calculate how much super hard to mix in to get certain percentages. Same with coww and tin. I usually mix in about 2% tin and it seems to be just fine for almost everything I shoot.


Powdercoating has left me not worried about leading anymore.
 
I hav a tester. Don't use it for bullets much....but I do use it for making the ingots that I use to make shot. I don't want the shot too hard as you lose weight(energy per pellet). I do make the shot I use in the 410 pretty darn hard. I have a bunch of 50 cal ammo cans that I put ingots in. 20-1 15-1 10-1 and 8 to 1. Lead to tin...and some are marked with the percent(roughly) of antimony. I bought almost 90 lbs total of tin at a farm auction and found out quickly that tin really does make for a better bullet...or shotgun pellet through the Littleton shot makers.
 
I use the thumb nail test for plinking bullets but for "Target Competition Quality" I use specific alloy (1:20, 1:30, Pure) and when the session is over I make one pound ingots and stamp the alloy ratio in the smooth side, It comes from my supplier in 4 pound ingots.

I also mark reclaimed alloys like WW= wheel weights, Type= Linotype, S Type= Stereo Type, Lead= reclaimed plumbing drains and roof flashing. Pure= certified 100% pure lead!

A friend is a commercial caster, His alloy is certified and comes in 200 pound ingots that don't fit in any bullet casting set up! He uses a course saws-all and cuts them into twenty pounders. He buys 5000 pounds at a time, and as many times a year as he can sell (2 to 5). 2.5 tons is all he can transport!

Ivan
 
I have a Cabin Tree about 20 years old or more. I shoot 4 different alloys and try to mix them in 100+ lb lots.
 
I too use a Cabine Tree and have for many years, great tool. That said, I don't hardness test much any more except occasionally when I'm brewing/testing an alloy with which to cast hollowpoint bullets . This MS Excel based Lead Alloy Calculator is a wonderful tool and I've found it to be very accurate.

If you're interested, here's an interesting test of a few hardness testers.
 
Like scout, I also have a Cabintree. I use it to spot check when doing something different, but for most handgun stuff, coated, proper fit trumps alloy. So I tens to not sweat exact alloy.
 
Never needed to test hardness. Wheel weights gave me 10-13 BHN and that was fine for pistol bullets up to .44 Rem Mag and all rifles I loaded for with a gas check for velocities over 1500fps (never really wanted to try plain lead at over 1500 fps in rifles).
I find that my "soft" bullets work great if they are at least larger than measured groove diameter, but when I purchased commercial lead bullets (18-22 BHN), I got a lot of leading until I ordered bullets that were 0.002" over actual groove diameter. Softer alloys obturate easier and seal the bore better.
For the commercial bullets, I found that a VERY light tumble in LLA reduced the leading to zero.
With lead bullets, I find that FIT is almost everything, followed by lubricant, with alloy being of almost no importance as long as the mold fills out completely.
Lee has numbers for yield point for various alloys, and as long as you are using a softer alloy, they will seal the bore just fine.
Mike Venturino has cast more bullets than I ever will and has won Black Powder Cartridge championships and he reports that he uses Type metal (18-22 BHN), sized to the groove diameter of the barrel, in his machine guns and semi-autos. I found that this simply didn't work for me in standard pistols and revolvers, and a softer alloy at just over groove diameter works perfect.
I also did bunch of testing years ago comparing unsized and hand-lubed bullets with bullets sized on my LubriSizer and found that in all cases, the as-cast bullets were as accurate or more accurate than the sized bullets--so, I haven't sized a cast bullet in over 40 years. None of my molds cast a bullet so large that it won't chamber in any of guns in that cartridge and I wouldn't want a mold that did.
 
My buddy and I use a Lee to get a ballpark figure on what we're working with. We use a lot of lead we pick up from a scrapper.

It's not particularly easy to use but seems to work.

We've started powdercoating so hardness isn't really an issue. ;)
 
I too find that guys tend to cast way too hard for their needs.I've got aprox 400#s of lynotype that I keep only for mixing with my pure lead(BHN5)so as to make 1350fps rifle and handgun bullets.I cast aprox 15000 bullets/year for my own use and another 25K bullets for customers with the same recipe.
75% is lubed with liquid alox(White lab)and the rest with Alox/beeswax 50/50 homemade lube.
Up to now,nobody has ever complained about leading or non accurate bullets.
My next investment will be a Lee lead hardness tester.Not that I really need it but I just have to know the number.
 
Have a cabin tree and would not be without one. Too many variables. Tester allows me to true hardness of my home cast and commercial cast
 
The usefulness of these devices applies only to to those who use a variety of alloys or wish to duplicate an alloy to a degree greater than a rough approximation. Granted, for many casters, they are not a necessary item, but I use my LBT tester regularly.
 
noylj said:
I also did bunch of testing years ago comparing unsized and hand-lubed bullets with bullets sized on my LubriSizer and found that in all cases, the as-cast bullets were as accurate or more accurate than the sized bullets--so, I haven't sized a cast bullet in over 40 years. None of my molds cast a bullet so large that it won't chamber in any of guns in that cartridge and I wouldn't want a mold that did.
Click to expand...

Agree, As long as the bullets are bore dia +, sizing isn't about accuracy. For me sizing is about limiting variables that might cause functioning issues. In a revo, not generally an issue. In semi auto, mixed cases, a slightly over sized or out of round bullet in a slightly thicker case may be an issue.
 
I use a Lee tester, That way i get my mix close to what I want and when I melt the alloy from my bullet stop.It will give me more of a idea of what I have to work with because I load for handgun and rifle and some for shotgun.I also made a stand for my Lee glass to read it better.
 
fred338: concerns are valid, but in 40+ years have not found that to be an issue.
When I have a round that doesn't chamber, the bullet diameter has not been the issue. The issue is either the bullet was seated crooked (taken care of now by being sure the expander leaves the case ID 0.001-0.002" under bullet diameter with sufficient case mouth flare to ensure the bullet sits on the case square and using a seating stem that actually fits) or a ridge near the extractor groove going about half way around the case--possibly due to a minor bulge that formed a ridge during sizing. Gong to a Bulge Buster 9mm Man FCD has eliminated that issue as far as I can tell. But man, did it lock up my P08 tight.
 
I have a Saeco lead hardness tester. It comes with a conversion chart to convert Saeco hardness to Brinell hardness. I only use this occasionally as I've found lead wheel weights cast into bullets work just fine even though the alloys may not all be exactly the same. I would use the hardness tester though if I were to alloy pure lead to a desired hardness.
 
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