Why do guns have serial numbers?

[butchd]

There are not many gunsmiths around here. A friend from Lousiana has a Remington 552 that his daughter shoots in 4-H (I'm glad it's still around). It needs work, so he brought it to me to take to the only real gunsmith I know. The smith logged it into his book per the ATF and mentioned that it has no serial number. No problem, but I looked on the net to see when guns were required to have serial numbers. Gun Control of 1968. I had other things on my mind (read women) in 1968 though I do remember that Sears Robuck stopped selling guns by mail along about then. The 552 was begun in 1957. Most of the guns I own predate 1968 so, I wonder why all my Smiths, Colts, and Brownings have serial numbers though they were not required. Previously I thought that a gun had to be sure enough old not to have a number. I guess it's for internal control but thought that some of you collectors might have a better reason.

 

[bobelk99]

Think why people have social security numbers and names.

It is nice to be able to tell them apart, without taking some one else's word as to which is which.

I dislike taking a gold chain in for repair. Would feel better if it had a serial number

 

[BLACKHAWKNJ]

I don't know about muzzle loaders, but all the Trapdoor Springfields I have seen had serial numbers. They let the manufacturer-Springfield Arsenal, in this case-keep track of components as they are assembled, keep track of individual rifles as they are assembled then shipped to the receiving units, let military units keep track of weapons. I have seen references in Ernst and Waite to writtens orders ordering active units to return all firearms below a specified S/N for inspection and overhaul. They are useful in checking quality control-cf the problems with the low number M1903s. A civilian manufacturer of higher quality firearms certainly wants to maintain a tight control over inventory and quality control and manufacture. The cylinder of my 1953 vintage Combat Masterpiece has its S/N on the cylinder and the barrel IIRC. I know my Winchester Model 69-made 1935-1947-has no S/N, but my Winchester Model 74 does. Years ago I had a Mossberg 500 with no S/N. As was pointed out they were not legally required until GCA '68.

 

[rburg]

Another of Dick's stories.....

Long ago, about 2000 I guess, we were setting up at a Lexington gun show, (Dixon stopped putting those on shortly after.) We had a system. My pard, John would pull up to a convenient spot. We'd jump into action, taking his cart out, then piling the totes full of guns on the cart, followed by the long guns in cases. It took less than 5 minutes with both of us working. Then he'd park the car as I pushed my guts out trying to go up the ramp and into the show.

This one trip, he said he'd be in. He had to personally carry in a gun. OK.

So in comes John, as usual, after we did all the work. But he came in very cautiously. He was carrying what was obviously a long gun, wrapped in a huge blanket (probably an Indian blanket, from back during the Indian wars!) If anyone came near, he'd shy away and give them plenty of room. It did attract a lot of attention.

Now John was a county coroner (and undertaker.) He lived out in a sparsley populated part of Kentucky. It seems some old guy passed away. During the Great Depression, the old guys father (an even older guy) had been a scrap collector. He pushed his hand cart door to door, paying change for any metal scrap. Sometimes folks, usually women, would offer up old guns. The old guy discounted them a bit because he'd have to burn off the wood (walnut) to harvest the metal. In reality, he just took them up to the attic and never bothered.

So when the oldest guy died, they did nothing but continued living in the family homestead. But when the son passed on, the widow wanted John to come bring all the guns down and get rid of them for her. No wonder John died later of a heart attack. But John worked his tail off on the sacred mission. And he made piles. Most were truely junk, and went to the gunsmith in West Louisville so he could harvest springs, screws and whatever. The next pile was sold as is, probably not functional. But the third pile consisted of one gun, the one he carried into the gunshow.

It was a maleable iron Henry. They only made a couple of hundred, with maybe only a few known to have survived. So at the show our experts, Reece and Charles, looked at it and agreed as to what it was. Then Charlie ran back to his table for a screwdriver. He extracted one of the tang screws. Sure enough, even the screw was serialed. So just like S&W uses assembly numbers, back in the early "War of Northern Agression" (you damnyankees call it the civil war), they serialed fine guns.

Anyway, the Henry went to the shot show the following month. The guys who took it came back with a McDonalds bag full of $100 bills. As the story goes, about $33,000, give or take. The sellers commission was 15%, so almost $30,000 went to the nice widow. When John delivered it to her, she was shocked. She'd never even seen a single $100 bill in her lifetime! Yes, they broke it up and made deposits over a time.

I like the story. And the principals are dead now, so it can freely be told.

 

[2152hq]

Serial numbers were legally required on everything except shotguns and 22rf cal long guns prior to GCA68.

GCA'68 only required that in addition to all other firearms,,that from that point forward shotguns and cal .22rf long guns be also serial numbered.

Some mfg'rs chose to ser# shotguns and 22lr long guns prior to GCA68anyway, but there was no fed law to do so.

Serial number requirements goes back at least to the Fed. Firearms Act 1938 as does the felony for altering or removing a mfg'rs serial number..

Mfg'rs use serial numbers as a way to keep track of inventory.
Military likes to number everything.
It can be used by the IRS to determine in some instances when excise tax is due from a mfg'r. (When does that gun be come a 'firearm' for excise tax purposes?) They want their money.

 

[therevjay]

Originaly it just helped the MFG. to keep track of what gun was made when. So if a problem showed up, or a major change was made they would know what guns it affected.

 

[pawncop]

Serial numbers were not required on imported handguns prior to the GCA 68 as well.

I had a case of a Llama 380 without serial number and was ready to pounce when ATF verified it was not required.

Most companies did but not all.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

Another of Dick's stories.....

Long ago, about 2000 I guess, we were setting up at a Lexington gun show, (Dixon stopped putting those on shortly after.) We had a system. My pard, John would pull up to a convenient spot. We'd jump into action, taking his cart out, then piling the totes full of guns on the cart, followed by the long guns in cases. It took less than 5 minutes with both of us working. Then he'd park the car as I pushed my guts out trying to go up the ramp and into the show.

This one trip, he said he'd be in. He had to personally carry in a gun. OK.

So in comes John, as usual, after we did all the work. But he came in very cautiously. He was carrying what was obviously a long gun, wrapped in a huge blanket (probably an Indian blanket, from back during the Indian wars!) If anyone came near, he'd shy away and give them plenty of room. It did attract a lot of attention.

Now John was a county coroner (and undertaker.) He lived out in a sparsley populated part of Kentucky. It seems some old guy passed away. During the Great Depression, the old guys father (an even older guy) had been a scrap collector. He pushed his hand cart door to door, paying change for any metal scrap. Sometimes folks, usually women, would offer up old guns. The old guy discounted them a bit because he'd have to burn off the wood (walnut) to harvest the metal. In reality, he just took them up to the attic and never bothered.

So when the oldest guy died, they did nothing but continued living in the family homestead. But when the son passed on, the widow wanted John to come bring all the guns down and get rid of them for her. No wonder John died later of a heart attack. But John worked his tail off on the sacred mission. And he made piles. Most were truely junk, and went to the gunsmith in West Louisville so he could harvest springs, screws and whatever. The next pile was sold as is, probably not functional. But the third pile consisted of one gun, the one he carried into the gunshow.

It was a maleable iron Henry. They only made a couple of hundred, with maybe only a few known to have survived. So at the show our experts, Reece and Charles, looked at it and agreed as to what it was. Then Charlie ran back to his table for a screwdriver. He extracted one of the tang screws. Sure enough, even the screw was serialed. So just like S&W uses assembly numbers, back in the early "War of Northern Agression" (you damnyankees call it the civil war), they serialed fine guns.

Anyway, the Henry went to the shot show the following month. The guys who took it came back with a McDonalds bag full of $100 bills. As the story goes, about $33,000, give or take. The sellers commission was 15%, so almost $30,000 went to the nice widow. When John delivered it to her, she was shocked. She'd never even seen a single $100 bill in her lifetime! Yes, they broke it up and made deposits over a time.
I like the story. And the principals are dead now, so it can freely be told.

Ah structuring A money launderer's best friend