WHY IS THE IL an ISSUE?

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Chukar60

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The IL issue reminds me of the Hatfields and McCoys. A lot people probably cannot remember what started it all. So no matter what side of the issue you are on, I hope this brings some understanding

In March 2000 Smith & Wesson was the only major gun manufacturer to sign an agreement with the Clinton Administration. The company agreed to numerous safety and design standards as well as limits on the sale and distribution of its products. Gun clubs and gun rights groups responded to this agreement by initiating large-scale boycotts of Smith & Wesson and by consumers refusing to buy their new products while Police agencies flooded the firearms market with used S&W guns. The sudden flood of used guns came primarily from law enforcement agencies that were trading their department issued revolvers for semi-automatic pistols, additionally the trade in pistols were often considered better quality than the revolver products being produce by Smith and Wesson during the late 1990's. After a 40% sales slide, the sales impact from the boycotts led Smith & Wesson to suspend manufacturing at two plants. The success of the boycott led to a Federal Trade Commission antitrust investigation's being initiated under the Clinton administration, targeting gun dealers and gun rights groups, which was subsequently dropped in 2003. This agreement signed by Tomkins PLC ended with the sale of Smith & Wesson to the Saf-T-Hammer Corporation. The new company (Smith and Wesson Holding Corporation), which publicly renounced the agreement, was received positively by the firearms community.

The Boycott had its desired effect. It basically destroyed Tompkins. It sent a serious message to all gun mfg.'s that you either stand with us on gun rights or you will suffer the
consequences.

It is my opinion that if your opposition the IL is symbolic and not mechanical, it is time to move on, Tompkins is long gone. If your dislike is mechanical, then stick to your old school Smiths, but respect the choices of those who are not bothered by the mechanical aspect of the IL.
Likewise, for those of you who have no issue with the IL, some respect to those of us who dutifully boycotted a beloved member of the firearms community is due. We effectively put an end to mfg.'s cooperating with the government to limit YOUR 2nd amendment rights.

I hope this cut & paste history review will bring some understanding to the situation. At this point in time the argument has become ridiculous and pointless.
 
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I have a couple Smiths with the IL and never had a problem with them other than I don't like how they look. That said there have been several documented instances where the lock has jammed up the action rendering the revolver useless. I think that is why most prefer a pre lock gun or a new one without the lock.
 
My personal dislike (and that may be too strong a word) to the IL is cosmetic. With the lock and change to a frame mounted firing pin does change the profile of the guns over those without those changes. I would not shun a new S&W but if I can get what I am looking for without those changes I would rather. Also older high condition m-10's 29's,
36's and so on, cost less than the newer ones.
 
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If even just one or two people had an accidental lock up, well that’s enough to concern me. Especially if I am going to be carrying it as my self defense weapon. I mean just look at this guy below. It locked up on him with one of the Performance Center revolvers. These are top-of-the-line Smith’s that you pay extra for. Just do a search on YouTube or Google and you’ll come across other incidents where it’s happen.

All I can say is thank God for the “plug”.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lzKh5Y0TaY0
 
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I can sorta understand objections to the IL, but bias towards the MIM parts has gotten ludicrous. Yeah, they're ugly, but they are far more consistent and easier to tune.
Folks pine away for the good ol days when guns were such good quality because the parts got all of that loving "hand fitting". Guess what? More hand-fitting=inconsistent dimensions=poor quality. If enough of that hand- fitting is required, parts may not be interchangeable.

When labor costs went up after WWII, pretty much every mfr suffered quality issues and had to adapt to still deliver a decent product at their price point. Even the much-vaunted pre-64 Winchesters had issues.

It's taken 50 years for the post-64 Winchester haters to quiet down, so I guess we had better get used to it.

Had the sequence of the P&R changes been flipped, the same folks would be complaining about the recessed chambers and unsightly pin.
 
I can sorta understand objections to the IL, but bias towards the MIM parts has gotten ludicrous. Yeah, they're ugly, but they are far more consistent and easier to tune.
Folks pine away for the good ol days when guns were such good quality because the parts got all of that loving "hand fitting". Guess what? More hand-fitting=inconsistent dimensions=poor quality. If enough of that hand- fitting is required, parts may not be interchangeable.

When labor costs went up after WWII, pretty much every mfr suffered quality issues and had to adapt to still deliver a decent product at their price point. Even the much-vaunted pre-64 Winchesters had issues.

It's taken 50 years for the post-64 Winchester haters to quiet down, so I guess we had better get used to it.

Had the sequence of the P&R changes been flipped, the same folks would be complaining about the recessed chambers and unsightly pin.
 
I have both and have had ZERO issues with the IL. BUT Chukar60 if we accomplished so dog gone much why is it that the IL is still rolling out of the factory? It increases cost due to materials and complexity in the process.
Chip King
 
It increases cost due to materials and complexity in the process.
Chip King

I would simply assume liability and weak stomached executives at S&W.

I have plenty of IL guns, I don't even give it a second thought.

A lot of cases, I have dumped no lock guns for a IL version, the 686 SSR being the latest example that I dumped a 586 to purchase.

Chris
 
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