Why isn't there any load data for 45 acp +p or 45 super or 460 rowland???

[Shtf45acp]

Ok so I've spent $100 on the "best" supposedly reloading books and neither one have any data on 45 acp +p or 45 super or 460 rowland ammunition. I have the Lyman 50th edition and the Richard Lee 2nd edition. I'm quite disappointed in both, but they do seem like very good books otherwise.

I haven't seen the Sierra, Nosler, or Hornady books yet but I'm hesitant on ordering those as well. So far all I can seem to find is data online and I'm very leery on trusting that data.

Even hot loads for 45 acp come no where near close to factory advertised 45 acp +.

Does anyone know where or can point me in the direction or printed data for any of these cartridges?

Thank you!

 

[1sailor]

Here's a link to some free info from Hodgdon. It does cover the .45 Super and the .460 Rowland. Can't help you with the .45acp+ though.
Hodgdon Reloading | Home

 

[Shtf45acp]

I did see this site last night and played around with it for a bit. I would trust these numbers but the only problem I have is they seem low on velocity and pressure. Like example.... their 460 rowland numbers are just a tad higher then buffalo bore or underwood 45 super. Hodgdon is advertising 460 rowland 1400 fps with 185 grain bullet for a minimum load and Underwood is 1300 fps and buffalo bore is 1350 fps with 185 grain bullet for their 45 super ammo. Now is the factory ammo being embellished or is hodgdon not loading to full potential?
I doubt Underwood and buffalo bore are embellishing because there is documented videos on YouTube where people are getting a average velocity that is very close to advertised velocity. Now Hodgdon 45 super isn't even as hot as say factory 45 acp +p. This is what is confusing me.

 

[dannyabear]

I think Aillant website has 45+p info

 

[fredj338]

The 45 super & Rowland are basically wildcats. There are so many old 45acp out there, +p data is just an accident waiting to happen IMO. You want to shoot off the books, then you need to understand reloading & develop your own loads. I load for several wildcat rifle rds. I enjoy the tinkering & nice to show up in camp with something no one has ever seen.
338-06
338x74K
404jeffery
7mm Dakota

 

[gwpercle]

Take a look at Western Powders Loading Data , the online data . They have a section on 45 AUTO +P . You can print this data for free . I Did not see any 45 Super or 460 Rowland. Did see 460 S&W . They have just come out with a printed manual ...it's their #1 first , it should have more data than the online data , E-mail them to find out if the 45 Super and 460 Rowland is included before you order it .
I ordered a little free booklet ($2.99 postage) when I started trying out Accurate powders and was impressed with it ....the new manual should be a good one.
Truth is , having 6 reloading manuals around for reference and cross checking loads is not too many... I have 12 manuals and still run into problems finding data on some things....Buy every manual you can find....way too many variables and cartridges , old and new , to be found in only one or two manuals.
Gary

 

[bigggbbruce]

Example... Alliant 45ACP 230gr GDHP 7.4gr Powerpistol 881fps

Handloads.com 45 Super 230gr GDHP 9.4gr Powerpistol 1104fps

I guess you could split the data to get +P, but I see it more as 45ACP or 45 Super

 

[Sevens]

Speaking specifically to the .460 Rowland...
This cartridge is the pet project of Johnny Rowland, hence the name. And he's got a whole website for it, and that site hosts HIS load data, that he developed, for use with his cartridge.

To discount this as a source of load data (ummm, a PRIME source) because it's on the danged 'ole internet is... in a word, ludicrous.

Load Data – .460 Rowland(R)
If this particular source for .460 Rowland load data is unacceptable, then you probably should never consider handloading .460 Rowland.

 

[Shtf45acp]

Yea i found that website this afternoon and called them. I will be taking that data and considering it good data. I hope I didn't tick anyone off it just took me some time and I came across it.

So I sat down and made out a spread sheet of reputable load data. I took wash source and just went and took the most common availbe powder near me and made a spread sheet.

Now from this I can start where I'd like and work my way up. I'll most likely be using starline brass for all of it so I don't have to worry about that part of it. The rest will be firearm tuning and setup.

 

[BLUEDOT37]

As you found out, Hodgdon's 45 Super data is weak.

Sierra's Handloading Handbook has some good 45acp +P load data in the 45acp revolver section. They work fine in my 3rd Gen 45 autos too, with a good recoil spring installed.

RealGuns had 45 Super data but I see they now require you to be a paid member to access it. I saved the data & have used the same load data in both my revolvers (325/625s) & autos (1911/4506/4586).

Examples:

Using a 185gr JHP (Nosler, Hornady, & Zero) my max is 11.3gr/Power Pistol & a 1.200" COAL minimum.

Using a 200gr JHP (Hornady) my max is 10.4gr/Power Pistol & a 1.200" COAL minimum. (10.8gr/P-P caused bulged cases in my 1911)

- Work up slowly for each gun used & watch the COAL" (make sure they pass the plunk test on each) -

All are in new Starline 45 Super brass or Starline 45 Auto Rim brass. Both equally strong.

Power Pistol & LongShot are very close in burn rate in this size case. LongShot being slightly slower.

.

 

[alwslate]

If you want actual pressure tested .45 acp +P data with velocities
chronographed from real handguns look up Brian Pearce's articles in
Handloader magazine.

 

[ArchAngelCD]

I don't think the 460 Rowland and the 45 Super are SAAMI cartridge so I doubt any powder company will list data. You can't blame companies like Lyman, there is no way to be sure pressures are safe if there are no standards.

 

[Shtf45acp]

Only reason I used power pistol powder in my spread sheet is it seemed the most common between all of my data I found and the books I have. I'll have to check out the Sierra manual and I'd like to order the speer manual as well.

I'll update my spread sheet later today and add longshot and AA#7 to it as well.

 

[Sevens]

I had a short fling with .460 Rowland in a Remington R1 conversion sold direct from Clark Custom. I loaded Precision Delta's 185gr JHP and I used Longshot powder and CCI-LP Magnum primers.

Using just 12.2gr of Longshot, I was clocking an honest 1,435 fps average with these loads. If you look at all of the different 185gr load data from their site, you'll see that my 12.2gr charge was under every start charge they list for all 185's except for the all-copper Barnes slugs that I won't mess with. (all copper slugs are an entirely different animal at the load bench, the rules are different)

My point is that I was using a very conservative charge weight and the pistol was sending bombs down range. It was a blast and we were cracking large rocks in to pieces.

The .460 Rowland is no joke. This is a balls to the wall cartridge.

 

[Shtf45acp]

Yeah I agree 460 rowland data is all over the board. Their website shows quite a bit of data and hodgdon does too bit it seems like hodgdon is showing lower velocity. That's why I'd like to start lower then advertised start charge and see how it is but wasn't sure how that would work or work at all.

I'm basically looking for a powder that I can use for 45 acp and 45 super and 460 rowland but also reload for my brother in 44 magnum. Power pistol actually doesn't seem to be used in 44 magnum as much so I might switch over to longshot or AA#7.

I think you're right though and your 12 gr. was conservative. All his loads using long shot start at 12.9 and go for 185 gr bullet

 

[Sevens]

Just some friendly advice, and I do mean that -- the kind of advice I would love to have gotten 20-25 year ago when I finally ventured in to other cartridges at the load bench beyond simply the .38 Special, .45 Auto and .30 Carbine I was loading.

I'm basically looking for a powder that I can use for 45 acp and 45 super and 460 rowland but also reload for my brother in 44 magnum.

This is a mistake, it's a poor habit to get in to and if you actually load lots and lots of all of these, it's almost a false economy.

When we look at the four components that make up a loaded round... we could argue about the cost/price of the brass we re-use, but ultimately... especially in most handgun rounds, the powder is the least expensive of the components.

When you get in to the habit of "settling" for a powder simply because it works in multiple places and you think you are saving money... all you really end up with are loads that end up being a compromise.

If you instead get the powder that is best for the job, you'll make the best loads and you have a side benefit of having lots of powder options when a new cartridge shows up at your bench.

This realization took me years and years to discover and embrace personally. And I have zero regrets.

When you look at the pressure the .460 Rowland aims for, it should be obvious that you are going to build not only better loads with a slower burning powder, you are also making SAFER loads with a more predictable top end.

You are talking four different cartridges with one powder. Is it possible? Yes, sure. And if you are willing to have not a single one of them doing it's best, it isn't even difficult. But it's a false economy and every load you make is just "settling for something that works good enough."

I bet ten years from now, you'll have 20 different powders in your cache, and I'm just talking pistol powders. I think your best bet is to pick powders that load those cartridges perfectly.

And for the .44 Magnum, make your brother buy the Alliant 2400 or Hodgdon H-110 that it really enjoys if he wants the full-nuts .44 Magnum experience.

 

[Shtf45acp]

Well for the 45 acp, +P, 45 super, and 460 rowland it looks like the best three are power pistol, longshot, and AA#7..... at least on paper. There are definitely other powders being used but those three show up in all data I've found.

Now I know what you're saying about slower powder burn and being safer but where do you start to look at wasted powder that isn't burning and also powder charge volume compared to each powder. That would seem at least again on paper burning money out of your barrel that isn't being used. I guess this is where I don't have enough experience reloading yet. How and where do you draw a line from data on paper to actual performance out of your gun. Like you said earlier you were happy with 12.2 gr. of longshot compared to printed data showing statistics with almost 2 and 3 gr. more of charge.

It's almost like looking at dyno sheets on paper. Sure a 900 hp sprint car motor goes fast on the track but isn't really streetable where as a 500 ho motor that creates all it's torque off the bottom end would be a better choice. Does that sound right? As to also where a 44 magnum would be a different application to where a different powder would benefit better.

 

[Sevens]

It ends up about being what you are asking each load to do, and your bullet choice has a lot of say as well.

Power Pistol in regular old .45 ACP? Well, yes, you can make some top-end .45 ACP loads with that powder, but you'll be wanting to use a higher quality slug I'm guessing. Most of the rest of the world that handloads .45 ACP is looking for a decent practice load with bullets they buy 1,000 or 5,000 at a time. For that job, Power Pistol is a pretty oddball choice for .45 ACP. Most are using Win231, Titegroup, AA#2 or Bullseye, and they aren't looking for top-end .45 ACP speeds.

Also curious why you might want the very top end of .45 ACP if, at the same time, you are making .45 Super (!) and .460 Rowland (!!!)

For .44 Mag, again, you've got a w-i-d-e range of capability. What's the goal? If you want your ammo to make the big revolver act like it does when you spend $38 on store bought .44 Mag, then yup, buy some jacketed 240-grain slugs ($) and get out the slow powder.

But countless folks making .44 Mag are using a cast lead 240 at 300 fps slower than full-tilt. For that they are using Unique or Universal or maybe the AA#7 you mentioned earlier. I think Power Pistol make work in the middle there also.

This is pure joy I get from handloading... I make such a wide array of stuff from mild to wild, and it's the hobby angle of the operation. I just love being able to do that.

 

[Wise_A]

Now I know what you're saying about slower powder burn and being safer but where do you start to look at wasted powder that isn't burning and also powder charge volume compared to each powder.

Couple things.

(1) There's really no such thing as "wasted" powder, unless you really reach for extremes (snubbies + H110).

(2) Even then, what you really get is a hot load with a slow powder that's maybe not living up to its potential. The velocity will still be higher than a faster-burning powder. The excess recoil (burning powder creates recoil) will barely be noticeable.

(3) The difference in cost per round might add up to a penny a round. Probably more like half or three-quarters. That's 50 cents a box. If you're buying your components smart, with lead bullets you should be at $8.50 to $10 a box, on a cartridge that normally costs $36 a box.

Power Pistol and AA#7 will work fine in .44 Magnum. Both are in between Unique and 2400. PP is a little closer to Unique, and AA#7 is closer to 2400. Neither is likely to develop the velocity of 2400, but there's nothing wrong with either for casual shooting.

Personally, I like 2400 for .44--plenty of oomph, without having to deal with H110/296. PP would produce decent results, and I use it frequently in 9mm.

 

[kingrj]

For the .45 acp and .45 Super you could get by with either Unique or PowerPistol just fine and it would work as light loads in the .44 magnum but there is NO powder that works in the upper ranges for all three calibers. If you are not using a powder like BlueDot or slower than BlueDot in a .44 mag then you might as well shoot a .44 special..And there is nothing wrong with that..If you are happy with the .44 special then the two powders mentioned above will work just fine!