Will someone ever make a 15 round 15-22 magazine?

[Kiwi cop]

Here in New Zealand firearms owners are licensed for sporting guns but some guns require special licensing with additional security.

A semi-automatic rifle with a free standing pistol grip, flash suppressor or bayonet lug and has, or has the appearance of holding more than 7 centerfire or 15 rimfire magazine capacity is a Military Style Semi Atomatic (MSSA), our definition of an assault rifle. It needs only one of the options to qualify.

Now the bar running from the bottom of the pistol grip back to the butt on my 15-22 and 10 round magazines makes it a sporting rifle. I can store the gun in my basic safe and import spare parts (trigger group for example) and magazines for it without a permit.

Remove that bar, or get some 25 round magazines and:

a) I need to register the gun against my MSSA endorsement.
b) I need to keep it in my beefed up pistol/MSSA/Restricted Weapon (full auto) safe (no problem, plenty of room ), and
c) I need to obtain a permit to import every time I want to import an internal/external part or magazine!

The 15-22 is sold locally with one 10 round magazine. The importer does not have spare mags at present, but estimates they will cost NZ$80, US$45, each. Most of us locally who have bought the 15-22 are looking at keeping it on the standard license and getting in some more 10 round mags from Brownells (who will export them here if the total order is under US$100). We figure that with .22 pistol mags having a capacity of 10 rounds we can shoot our 15-22's the same way on speed and "mini rifle" IPSC stages.

Taking my 15-22 for its maiden visit to the range today I only loaded 5 rounds at a time in the mag to zero in the sights. But even while doing so it occurred to me that "Ten rounds per mag is not going to be enough because this gun is so much fun".

I think I'll buy four or five 10 round mags when in the US next month, but when I get back put the rifle on my MSSA endorsement, apply for a permit to import and get some 25 round mags from Brownells. I have no doubt I can resell the 10 round mags to other shooters

It sure would be easier though if someone made a 15 round 15-22 mag. That way we'd have the best of both worlds. Magazine capacity and ease of ownership/importation of parts.

 

[GhostMutt]

Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 15 Round Conversion Magazine

 

[Kiwi cop]

Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 15 Round Conversion Magazine

Thanks, but these look like they are regular 25 round mags alterered to take 15. I’m the interests of keeping it simple I neglected that the appearance of holding more than 15 rounds in the mag qualifies as making the 15-22 an MSSA (I’ve edited my OP) and subject to needing a permit to import parts/magazines. It is a quirk of our legislation.

I have confused my “local” arms officer enough this month with two seperate applications for permits to import pistol parts a few days apart He got them mixed up when he sent them to Wellington for issue and has egg on his face. Add in the fact that I live in one Police area and work in a neighbouring one (where my club is located) and it gets a bit messy.

I will probably go the MSSA route later with full 25 round mags.

 

[Wee Hooker]

There are factory 10 round mags in the short version and the long version. Sounds like you can only live with the short version unless somebody comes up with a way to physically shorted the long version.
Look at the bright side, sounds like a business opportunity too me!
Personally, I don't mind 10 round short mags at all.

 

[b_san]

Put it on your MSSA and get the Black Dog 50 round drum and you'll be all set.

BLACK DOG MACHINE LLC SMITH & WESSON M&P 15-22 50RD MAGAZINE 22LR | Brownells

 

[Sandman.nz]

Hi Kiwi Cop, i purchased my 15-22 last week from Gun City Chch. They have he 10 rounders for $49 and will do ya a deal if you grab a few. (i grabbed 4 spare) The intent is to run a molle leg rig for bunny shooting in Central Otago ��

 

[Kiwi cop]

Hi Kiwi Cop, i purchased my 15-22 last week from Gun City Chch. They have he 10 rounders for $49 and will do ya a deal if you grab a few. (i grabbed 4 spare) The intent is to run a molle leg rig for bunny shooting in Central Otago ��

Hi Sandman.

I am off to the US in a few weeks and will grab some 10 round mags from Midway when I pass through Columbus MO. If I go the MSSA route I will opt for 25 round mags instead of 15.

Given the Otago rabbit population recovery from the calici virus release I would suspect that 10 round mags may not be enough for your bunny buster. As for the 15-22, in my so far limited testing (I'm training for the IPSC NI's next weekend then the Nationals in November so shooting my SA 1911 right now every chance I get) I would suggest that a trigger upgrade would be in order too. Brownells have a few options under US$100 and will export to you, but remember you will need a permit to import from PNHQ or customs will seize it and destroy. (Although your 15-22 may be on your A cat license the triggers are generic AR15's so fall under the E cat MSSA requirements, which right now are a complete mess).

I wonder how many 15-22's will make an appearance any next years Easter Bunny hunt down your way?

 

[Wee Hooker]

Here in New Zealand firearms owners are licensed for sporting guns but some guns require special licensing with additional security.

A semi-automatic rifle with a free standing pistol grip, flash suppressor or bayonet lug and has, or has the appearance of holding more than 7 centerfire or 15 rimfire magazine capacity is a Military Style Semi Atomatic (MSSA), our definition of an assault rifle. It needs only one of the options to qualify.

Now the bar running from the bottom of the pistol grip back to the butt on my 15-22 and 10 round magazines makes it a sporting rifle. I can store the gun in my basic safe and import spare parts (trigger group for example) and magazines for it without a permit.

Remove that bar, or get some 25 round magazines and:

a) I need to register the gun against my MSSA endorsement.
b) I need to keep it in my beefed up pistol/MSSA/Restricted Weapon (full auto) safe (no problem, plenty of room ), and
c) I need to obtain a permit to import every time I want to import an internal/external part or magazine!

The 15-22 is sold locally with one 10 round magazine. The importer does not have spare mags at present, but estimates they will cost NZ$80, US$45, each. Most of us locally who have bought the 15-22 are looking at keeping it on the standard license and getting in some more 10 round mags from Brownells (who will export them here if the total order is under US$100). We figure that with .22 pistol mags having a capacity of 10 rounds we can shoot our 15-22's the same way on speed and "mini rifle" IPSC stages.

Taking my 15-22 for its maiden visit to the range today I only loaded 5 rounds at a time in the mag to zero in the sights. But even while doing so it occurred to me that "Ten rounds per mag is not going to be enough because this gun is so much fun".

I think I'll buy four or five 10 round mags when in the US next month, but when I get back put the rifle on my MSSA endorsement, apply for a permit to import and get some 25 round mags from Brownells. I have no doubt I can resell the 10 round mags to other shooters

It sure would be easier though if someone made a 15 round 15-22 mag. That way we'd have the best of both worlds. Magazine capacity and ease of ownership/importation of parts.

Wow, and I thought New England states had some harsh laws!

p.s. The trick to living with 10 round mags is to practice fast and seamless mag changes.

 

[robbyg]

You could design and 3D print a 15 round magazine body that will accept the feeder, bottom and a cut spring from a 25 round Mag.

Just a thought.

 

[1sailor]

I'm not out to knock anyone's laws but it seems strange (to me anyway) to say that your magazine cannot "look" like it holds more. Is there any reasoning behind that. The only thing I can come up with is to prevent over capacity mags that have a removable limiter to make them 10 rounds.

 

[Kiwi cop]

I'm not out to knock anyone's laws but it seems strange (to me anyway) to say that your magazine cannot "look" like it holds more. Is there any reasoning behind that. The only thing I can come up with is to prevent over capacity mags that have a removable limiter to make them 10 rounds.

Way back in 1990 (so it is claimed by more than a few "in the know") police in a small South Island town did not deal properly with complaints of anger and aggression shown by a licensed shooter with high capacity semi automatic rifles. That person went on to kill a number of civilians plus the police sergeant who failed to follow up on the complaints.

The whole incident lead to a review of what these firearms were good for in New Zealand legislation and the MSSA (Military Style Semi Automatic) firearm was designated requiring additional enquiries as to suitability to own and security.

Part of the "appeal" of these guns to "those who should not have them" was, apparently, the high magazine capacity, or the appearance of a high mag capacity, so it was determined that 7 centerfire rounds and 15 .22 LR rounds would be the arbitrary cut off point. At least one tube magazine fed semi auto 22 held 17 rounds and got caught up in the hoopla as was a semi auto shotgun with and 8 round tube mag. And then there was discussion by collectors about the M1 rifle, (8 round clip which when loaded resulted in 7 in the "magazine" plus 1 in the chamber. Eventually it was disregarded under the new definition).

A whole lot of small town gunsmiths made money for a few years blocking the bottoms of 10 shot Chinese and Russian SKS carbines, originally with police approval. The same gunsmiths made more money a few years later when someone at Police National HQ mentioned the "appears to hold" provisions and the gunsmiths actually shortened the magazines.

Then there is the contradiction with the definition of a "free standing pistol grip stock". As you can see by the pic of my M&P 15-22 below, a simple bar from the base of the grip back to the buttstock makes it "sporting" instead of MSSA.

A whole industry has grown up in this country around AR 15's. "Sporting" rifles abound with stocks similar to my 15-22, but no dealer can "find" a 5 round mag and no 7 rounders are made, so the definition was changed recently to say "does not hold more than 7 centerfire rounds and appears to hold no more than 10 centerfire rounds".

A few year ago an attempt was made to change the definition around "free standing" to include a narrow and non tension bearing bar like on my M&P and it ended up in court which ruled in favour of shooters. Also at a later time there was a policy that owners of MSSA's could not import parts unless they handed in for destruction the part they were replacing without compensation. It is part of our firearms laws that compensation must be paid.

I feel the whole thing is like the California and New Jersey etc magazine limits. Either certify with additional scrutiny and security all AR 15/AK47 alikes or ahve a whole rethink of the category of firearm.

Our criminal problem is not really with military style looking firearms. It is with cut down (often stolen) 12 gauge pump and double barrel shotguns and .22 rifles.

But try telling that to the antis.

And another story. About the time of that early 1990 shooting, locals in a town where I moved early the following year told police about a local farmer and commercial fisherman who had and often fired a fully automatic AK47 rifle. Local cops did nothing because the person concerned was close mates to a cop and he was "a good guy who would ever use it against police".

The day after the shooting the local arms officer was going around collecting formal statements to get a search warrant ot seize the firearm. Before a warrant could be obtained his cop mate let slip what was happening and the firearm was handed in as having been "found, test fired and now surrendered".

last year I was reading in a national paper of a farmer and fisherman from the same area being sentenced to prison for importing methamphetamine. And yes, it was the same "good guy".