Win 9mm NATO 124gr. from WalMart

[Peckerwood702]

I've been searching for over an hour trying to get an answer, everything I read is different, NATO is = to +P, NATO is HOTTER than +P+, NATO is 40k psi, NATO is 36k psi.
Can someone give me a straight answer?

 

[Dragon88]

I can't really give you a straight answer but I'll give you what I know.

SAAMI maximum pressure for 9mm Luger is 35,000 PSI, and 9mm +P is 38,500 PSI. +P+ is 42,000 PSI, though I do not know if +P+ is actually an accepted specification for SAAMI.

By CIP standards, maximum pressure is 34,083 psi for 9mm. The CIP proof round is 45,687 psi.

This is what I would pay attention to in this situation. When we pull 9mm ammo on an Army range, it is WCC stamped 9mm NATO just like I have seen in those commercial packages. Referencing Army Technical Manual 43-0001-27, maximum pressure for 9mm NATO M882 is 36,025 psi, with an average pressure of 31,175 psi. The Army "High Pressure Test" or proof round is 50,000 psi.

Going by those numbers, if I wanted to make a generalization, I would say 9mm NATO is in the +P range, with the caveat that properly manufactured 9mm barrels will be proofed for an additional 10,000 psi or more.


Confused? I am. There are a lot of different specs out there and I have no idea what Winchester is actually loading in that 9mm "NATO" load they sell at Wal-Mart and other places. Since it is marked NATO, however, I would assume it is a little hotter than American Eagle and such. What are you shooting it in? If it's a Glock, no problem at all. Our Glock 19s shoot this stuff no problem, just be sure to clean the brass shavings out of the ejector. It is snappy ammunition. Are you firing this in an old or questionable pistol? If so you might look at some generic 9mm Luger loads.

 

[alwslate]

I bought several boxes of the early WCC stamped 9mm 124 gr NATO
ammo at gun shows some years back. It was pretty warm, chronographing a little over 1200 fps in my Browning High Power. Don't
know if the current Wal-Mart stuff is the same. Wouldn't bet on it. If
memory serves mine was made in 88.

 

[Mack]

I would suspect it is the same spec as the Ranger which is loaded 45 fps hotter than the USA. I would say it is somewhere between standard and +P.

9mm Nato 124 gr. Ranger Full Metal Jacket
Product Symbol: RA9124N
Cartridge: 9mm Nato
Bullet Weight: 124
Muzzle Velocity: 1185
Ballistic Co-efficient: -
Barrel Length: 4.00"

9mm Luger 124 gr. USA Full Metal Jacket
Product Symbol: USA9MM
Cartridge: 9mm Luger
Bullet Weight: 124
Muzzle Velocity: 1140
Ballistic Co-efficient:
Barrel Length:

 

[Peckerwood702]

Im shooting it from a sigma. I was on the SAAMI web site and did a search for 9mm NATO. A article came up on unsafe firearm-ammunition combination's. On the list the had 9mm and among the rounds that shouldn't be fired from it was 9mm NATO. http://www.saami.org/specifications...1-Unsafe_Arms_and_Ammunition_Combinations.pdf

I think I might try to return the rounds or sell them elsewhere.

Also the marking on the casings are different, they have a 10 and WCC on them. Now one time I got a WWB and notice it had 9mm luger casings and about 15 or so of these casings that have the 10 and WCC on them mixed in. I never thought anything of it but now I wonder if they had NATO rounds mixed in or just used the brass?

 

[Dragon88]

No manufacturer would mix rounds of different load pressures in the same box. They probably just used some extra brass from a 9mm NATO run for the white box bulk stuff.

Military ammo has the NATO symbol and the year of manufacture in the headstamp, i.e. LC 09 or WCC 10.

 

[cp1969]

That SAAMI "do not use in.." list is interesting. At least the 9mm NATO in a 9mm Luger is understandable. Some of the others, such as "do not use .308 Winchester in a .25-06 Remington" make you scratch your head.

 

[stiab]

Winchester makes at least two different NATO 9mm rounds, and they have different ballistics. RA9124N is the lesser of the two, Q4318 is superior. I chronographed the RA9124N twice, once at average 1133 and the second time on a different day and differnt gun (same 4' barrel length) at 1135 fps. The Q4318 averaged 1190 from a 4" barrel.

I would put the Q4318 in the +P category of performance, but who knows what pressures are generated.

 

[Rob1109]

I've been searching for over an hour trying to get an answer, everything I read is different, NATO is = to +P, NATO is HOTTER than +P+, NATO is 40k psi, NATO is 36k psi.
Can someone give me a straight answer?

From what I've heard over time is the Nato round is very slightly hotter (just a tad) because of the Mil.Spec. case, which is slightly thicker. I also bought some at WM this last w-end. Best.

 

[OKFC05]

"do not use .308 Winchester in a .25-06 Remington" make you scratch your head.

Since the head size is identical and the .308 case is shorter, it will fit and fire, with catastrophic results.

 

[cp1969]

Since the head size is identical and the .308 case is shorter, it will fit and fire, with catastrophic results.

It will? Won't it go too far into the chamber for the firing pin to reach it?

 

[Steve C]

According to Janes, one of the for most authorities of specifications for military hardware the NATO standard specification for 9mm ammunition calls for a 7.45 g full-jacketed bullet loaded to deliver a velocity of 396 m/s; mean pressure to be 2050 kg/cm2 , and the accuracy figure of Merit 76 mm at 50 m.

Converted to the English system that's a 115gr FMJ bullet at 1,299 fps at average pressure of 29,158 PSI with accuracy of 3" at 55 yards.

There is no mention of the test barrel length but its likely to be at lease SMG length rather than pistol length.

The US 9mm M882 version is listed as an 8.03 g ( 124 grain) bullet at 375 m/s (1,230 fps) +/- 15 m/s (49 fps).

 

[OKFC05]

It will? Won't it go too far into the chamber for the firing pin to reach it?

Some people just have to try everything for themselves---I'll be over here behind the blast wall!!

Just how far do you think that big fat .308 bullet is going into the .25 hole drilled for the .25-06 bullet?

 

[alwslate]

Rechambering

Some people just have to try everything for themselves---I'll be over here behind the blast wall!!

Just how far do you think that big fat .308 bullet is going into the .25 hole drilled for the .25-06 bullet?

Some years back it was a common practice to rechamber the
7.7mm Japanese rifles to 30-06 to get a cheap hunting rifle.
It was reported in an American Rifleman magazine article that
some guy had a rechambered Japanese rifle that he had used
to kill a deer on a hunting trip, and complaining about the
brutal recoil of his 30-06 he had some smith check it out. It
was a 6.5mm rifle. The NRA staff test fired it a few more
times with no damage to the guns action.

 

[stiab]

Converted to the English system that's a 115gr FMJ bullet

That seems strange. I've shot a lot of it but never seen any 115gr NATO rounds, all 124. Have others seen 115 NATO for sale?

 

[M29since14]

Never seen 115s. The stuff I have does not seem particularly hot, but it did not shoot very well in my P226. I do not buy a lot of factory loads, but when I do, I expect better accuracy than what I got.

I doubt Winchester would release this stuff for sale to the general public if it was dangerously over pressure. The box I have (nr. Q4318) does say "Pressure Levels Exceed Industry Standards," but curiously, the type is rather small. The back of the box says the ammo is 10% over pressure specification. Also warns to use only in modern firearms.

I doubt I will buy any more, but only because of the accuracy issue in my particular gun. I am going to give it a test in my 92F, just to see what it does in that gun.

 

[Rob1109]

9mm Nato 127gr.

Never seen 115s. The stuff I have does not seem particularly hot, but it did not shoot very well in my P226. I do not buy a lot of factory loads, but when I do, I expect better accuracy than what I got.

I doubt Winchester would release this stuff for sale to the general public if it was dangerously over pressure. The box I have (nr. Q4318) does say "Pressure Levels Exceed Industry Standards," but curiously, the type is rather small. The back of the box says the ammo is 10% over pressure specification. Also warns to use only in modern firearms.

I doubt I will buy any more, but only because of the accuracy issue in my particular gun. I am going to give it a test in my 92F, just to see what it does in that gun.

I've been led to beleive that J.M. Browing built the P-35 (read Hi-Power) around a 124gr. round. Don't "our" 115gr. have a mv of 1150fps?

 

[M29since14]

Browning died in 11/26/1926 and the P35 actually received its patents 3-mos after he died. I believe his son Val and F.N. were responsible for the final development of the pistol eventually introduced in 1935. I have never read what ammunition he and his successors used.

 

[Rob1109]

Browning P=35

Browning died in 11/26/1926 and the P35 actually received its patents 3-mos after he died. I believe his son Val and F.N. were responsible for the final development of the pistol eventually introduced in 1935. I have never read what ammunition he and his successors used.

You're correct except that it was Dieudonne Savie of FN who actually finalized the design/production. Brownings design was more conceptual than anything effectual.

 

[scattershot]

Pure speculation on my part, but I wonder if maybe the Ranger NATO ammo missed spec for military use somehow?