Winchester shotgun

[rchall]

Was looking at one of the internet gun sites recently and saw a Model 12 Winchester shotgun that caught my eye. It was a 20 gauge model, but had a solid rib on the barrel to boot. 28 inch full choke, also. The owner said it was in excellent original condition and that he had owned it for several years. He was asking $1195 for it. Are these guns bringing this kind of money these days??

 

[2152hq]

If it is truly 'excellent' condition wise,,and original,,depending on the age it could market for that w/a Solid Rib I believe.

Unless a M12 is something other than a plain field model and in a ga other than 12,,they can get attention & money.

The older the better of course as far as collectables go. 20ga brings a premium over 12 generally.

But,,Do some homework and see if the solid rib was available when the gun was mfg'rd. Also if a solid was available for a field gun if that is what you're looking at.
It is possible to change a plain bbl'd gun over to a solid rib gun by changing the bbl (tube) only.

More parts changes & upgrades have been done to M12's than any other shotgun I can think of. The 21 is close but they made so many more M12's.
New mfg boxes and paper work that'll defy even the most seasoned collector can accompany them. Letters typed out to the 'customer' on original W letterhead too. Be carefull when you get into that high dollar stuff.

 

[feralmerril]

I once owned a old model 12 with 2 sets of barrels both numberd to the gun. One was 12 guage full choke and the other a riot barrel.

 

[rchall]

He said it is all original and looks to be from the photos I have seen. Numbers match and everything looks to be correct. Very clean and has not been messed with as far as I can tell. From the serial number it looks to have been made around 1946. I am seriously considering this shotgun.

 

[mr.jbk79]

While I'm not sure on exact value, although I know the solid rib is uncommon, my model 12 20ga is special to me. Mine was made in '54, and was my Grandfathers. If you look at the book, the price you stated seems decent if its the real deal. If original, the solid rib adds a premium for sure.

 

[sheepdawg]

I'm looking at my 1946 12 ga. Model 12 as I type. It's barrel's been cutdown to 20" but it's almost pristine. I can tell you it has a feel that you can't buy on a new one these days plus slamfiring it is a hoot.

 

[2152hq]

The numbers can match (receiver and receiverl extension),,but I was talking about a change of barrels involving only the tube itself.
You use the guns original receiver extension, mag tube and forend wood.

Putting a different bbl into the original receiver extension still gives you matching numbers,,but not the barrel it left the factory with.

It takes a couple of special tools to do but most shotgun bbl gunsmith types should have them yet.
M12 and M97 use the same tool & bushings. Same tool with mag tube and chamber bushings sized for 410, and you can change bbls on the M42 too.

It's just worth checking to see if the solid rib bbl itself was available on the (field?) grade of gun you're looking at for the year it was made.
Perhaps it was, then at least you'll know you're dealing with a factory configuration. It still doesn't tell you about originality though.

When a large quantity of M12 original 20" riot bbls were dumped on the market years back,,there was a small industry to take near new condition field guns and replace the 28" & 30" with the 20" bbl.
Presto,,high dollar riot guns. Why some even appeared w/ PD, Military and other security type markings.
Always worth checking out to see if the gun configuration was even available in the yr/mfg.
Many of those riots were done on guns too early for the bbl address type that was on those surplus bbls.

It pays to do some looking.

Hope it turns out to be a 'real' one. They're beautiful shotguns especially in 20ga. The solid rib is a favorite of many over the vent. Nice classic look.

 

[rchall]

Yes, I checked Riffle's Model 12 book and this configuration of a 20 gauge with the 28" solid rib barrel was indeed available in 1946. So, I would assume it is in all likelihood correct.

 

[msinc]

The solid rib was available from the day they made the Model 12 to the day they quit. A 20ga with a solid rib is certainly worth that price if it's in any kind of condition at all...no rust pitting and all there. It can bring twice that if restored properly to "as new." You have to remember what made the Model 12 famous to begin with. It was the first truly successful repeating shotgun made in America. It signaled the end of the fine double gun era. Absolutely every part of that gun was fully machined out of a solid block or bar of steel. In the higher grades, more beautiful AAA fancy black walnut went into the stocks than any other American gun and this will make a few Winchester lovers mad but only because they know it's the truth...the Model 12 was king of the shotguns for along time and stayed that way until the mighty 870 Remington Wingmaster literally put Winchester out of business. The Model 12 still has a heavy following though and is a much sought after collection piece and as such the prices will only continue to climb. It's like land...they just aint makin any more of it!!One more thing...the 28" was a special ordered barrel length for the 20ga. Early ones had a 24" barrel as standard and later it was 26"...the 28" barrel was always rare on a twenty.