Wobblin' Wadcutters?

[johngalt]

I shoot a lot of 148gr HBWC. In my opinion, 3.3 gr Titegroup is too hot. Back when I experimented with it, 2.7 - 2.8 was plenty. I little tipping is common and normal, but loaded too hot and they start to go sideways.

I agree with Smith Crazy - Bullseye is a much better choice.

 

[NE450No2]

I have fired thousands of factory match .38 SPL 148 gr. hollow base wadcutter ammo over the years, out of revolvers and a semi-auto pistol. Bullet tipping is very common and doesn't affect accuracy out to 50 yards. I am going against the tide and say that bullet tipping with this ammo is NOT A PROBLEM.

B E Mike is correct. I shot Bullseye Competition for several years.
I used a S&W Mod 52 and a Clark 38 Special 1911.
One year I shot the Mod 52 at Camp Perry.

Many of the rounds on the target will shot signs of tipping at 25 and especially at 50 rounds, even with factory Match 38 Wadcutter ammo.

Gil Hebbard was a friend of mine, he did an extensive test of the Mod 52 and wrote it up in a magazine article and he documented this fact very well.

Also, the rounds that showed tipping were not flyers, and many of the rounds in the X ring at 50 yards would also show the signs of tipping.

Back in the mid 1970's the S&W Mod 52 was one of the Most accurate factory production handguns a fella could buy.

Beside Matches I used mine for squirrel and rabbit hunting with wadcutters.

 

[NE450No2]

Also I always shot 2.7gr or Bullseye.
I used the same load in my 38 Special PPC revolvers too.

 

[CookE]

I shot competition for many years. I don't think you can find a more accurate combination than, 2.7grs. BULLSEYE and a good 148gr. LHBWC. I found that will pound tacks. Of course you have to remember the ammo is only as good as the young fellow holding that firearm...THEY ALL SEEM TO GO WHERE YOU ARE POINTING IT WHEN THE GUN GOES OFF.
CookE...

 

[ncbengal]

Wobblin' wadcutters revisited

Okay, guys, I have reached the following conclusions after more experimentation, and I like the term "tipping" better than wobblin':

a) Titegroup (the claimed villian by some) is right next to Bullseye (the claimed hero) on the burn rate chart, and is not the problem.

b) Bullet "tipping" with 10% lower charge of TG (3.3gr down to 3.0) is still evident, and moreso at 50 yds compared to 25 yd.

c) "Tipping" with 231/HP38, one of the slower pistol powders, is still evident on some shots at modest loads of 3.0 gr.

d) I see "tipping" on the really nice target posted by "two-pound pull," e.g., the "10" at 1:00. I have similar/better targets with same effect.

e) Given that "tipping" is not consistent, I believe that this is a function of cast bullet eccentricity more than anything else.

 

[BE Mike]

Okay, guys, I have reached the following conclusions after more experimentation, and I like the term "tipping" better than wobblin':

a) Titegroup (the claimed villian by some) is right next to Bullseye (the claimed hero) on the burn rate chart, and is not the problem.

b) Bullet "tipping" with 10% lower charge of TG (3.3gr down to 3.0) is still evident, and moreso at 50 yds compared to 25 yd.

c) "Tipping" with 231/HP38, one of the slower pistol powders, is still evident on some shots at modest loads of 3.0 gr.

d) I see "tipping" on the really nice target posted by "two-pound pull," e.g., the "10" at 1:00. I have similar/better targets with same effect.

e) Given that "tipping" is not consistent, I believe that this is a function of cast bullet eccentricity more than anything else.

I thought you were using lead swaged 148 gr. wadcutter bullets, not cast bullets.

 

[Skip Sackett]

For What Its Worth

a) Titegroup (the claimed villian by some) is right next to Bullseye (the claimed hero) on the burn rate chart, and is not the problem.

I want to address this Nawth. Powders that are right next to each other on the burn rate chart can be YARDS away in several things. One is the WAY that they burn. Another way that they can differ is case fill.

Case in point, Bullseye & Titegroup. Titegroup is one of the densest powders that there is. This can have a poor affect on accuracy. The other thing is that Titegroup burns lots hotter. I just don't know how else to explain it, it just burns hotter. It burns hot enough to cause base erosion. That can cause real accuracy problems.

I will be honest as I can be, I believe in that, I have only used Titegroup in two applications. #1, was the 500 S&W magnum for a Handi-Rifle with jacketed bullets and #2, was the 45ACP and target loads with lead bullets. The 500 was okay but there was MIGHTY little in that huge case and the jacketed bullet wasn't going to have its base erode, and the 45ACP was marginal in accuracy and since I was reloading on a progressive, the little bit in the bottom of that case just gave me the heebee jeebies.

Since there was no real advantage to using Titegroup over Bullseye, which I have used since day 1, there was no reason to continue its use.

For new loaders, I come on kinda strong if they suggest using it to start out with. I would much rather every new reloader start off with HP-38/W231 than anything else, no matter what caliber they are loading. Just me, and since we all have one, I guess I am entitled to my opinion, right or wrong!

 

[ncbengal]

BE Mike: I stand corrected on the 148 gr Hdy LHBWC swaged.