world war one pilot handguns

[mg357]

Dear Smith and Wesson Forum. i have a question about world war one Pilot handguns what kind of handguns were issued to World war one pilots? any and all help in answering this would be greatly appreciated sincerely and respectfully mg357 a proud member of the Smith and Wesson Forum.

 

[Art Doc]

Well, at that time it was the Army Air Corps (the Air Force wasn 't created until after WW II) so the pilots were Army officers and the standard pistol of the U.S. Army was the 1911 Colt.

S&W and Colt both made large frame revolvers in 45 ACP for the military when Colt could not produce enough 1911s. As far as I know these three were the only officially issued sidearms in WW I. That is, assuming pilots were actually issued pistols. I do not know for a fact that they were.

I heard once that French pilots were given a revolver to shoot themselves in case their planes burst into flames from enemy gunfire. Better than burning to death, I guess.

Back then it was not uncommon for officers to carry a personal sidearm (recall George Patton's guns) so in theory you may have seen any type of handgun on a pilot's belt.

 

[bennettfam]

I heard once that French pilots were given a revolver to shoot themselves in case their planes burst into flames from enemy gunfire. Better than burning to death, I guess.
QUOTE]

This concept was demonstrated in the movie Flyboys.

Gruesome!

 

[ordnanceguy]

Well, at that time it was the Army Air Corps (the Air Force was 't created until after WW II) so the pilots were Army officers and the standard pistol of the U.S. Army was the 1911 Colt.

Well, not exactly. When the US entered the War in 1917 Army aviators were part of the Aviation Section of the Signal Corps. In May, 1918 this became the Army Air Service. The US Army Air Corps was not created until 1926, eight years after the end of the War.

 

[feralmerril]

Also they literaly had a warning sign for pilots to not wear spurs in the airplanes as some of these guys were recruited from the cavary! What guns would officers had from the cavary in those days? It`s possible some even carried colt saa`s. My guess is probley some carried those colt da armys in .38 colt, holdovers from the philipines and spanish american war as they were still the lighter and less bulkey than 1911`s and 1917`s in S&W`s and colts. Sure wish I would have asked one world war one pilot I knew in the 1960s! I suppose there must be knowledge somewhere on the net if it was goggeled.

 

[Jack Flash]

I read in an account of the final exploits of Frank Luke, "the Arizona Balloon Buster", second ranking American Ace of WWI, that may be of interest here. Ever heard of Luke Air Force Base? Yeah, that Luke.

After shooting down (setting ablaze is more like it) three German observation balloons, Luke's plane was disabled and he had to crash land. On the way down it is said he strafed German infantry with his machine guns. IIRC, this is a quote from the article: "He died in a hail of gunfire, blazing away at the German soldiers with his .45."

I always assumed that was a Colt Model of 1911 but IIRC, the article was not specific.

 

[Art Doc]

OG- That makes sense as they started out as forward observers and air combat developed later.

But my point was that they were part of the Army and not a separate branch as the Air Force is now.

 

[feralmerril]

The first use of airplanes were durring the poncho villa campaign. 6 J-2 jenneys were assigned from the army siginal corp. All of them crashed of failed mechanicly. That was in 1916.

 

[Paddy Garcia]

The British Royal Flying Corps were issued Webleys, Colt 1911s and Smith & Wesson N frame revolvers, all in .455.

 

[Jack Flash]

The first use of airplanes (by the US Army) were durring the poncho villa campaign. 6 J-2 jenneys were assigned from the army siginal corp. All of them crashed of failed mechanicly. That was in 1916.

Fixed it for you... of course, aircraft were used in WWI as early as 1914.

It was a sad fact that American aviators had to fly French aircraft in WWI. At the outbreak of the war, all combatant countries fielded planes that were hardly better than the Wright Brothers' invention. The unforgiving competition of aerial combat caused them to evolve quickly and by 1917 the airplane had been transformed into a real fighting machine. By the time it entered the war, the country where the airplane had been invented was so hopelessly behind in aircraft development that not one aircraft of US design saw service before the war ended.

The British Royal Flying Corps were issued Webleys, Colt 1911s and Smith & Wesson N frame revolvers, all in .455.

Of course, the British 1911s were chambered for the .455 Webley Automatic.

 

[Bell Charter Oak Holsters]

I read in an account of the final exploits of Frank Luke, "the Arizona Balloon Buster", second ranking American Ace of WWI, that may be of interest here. Ever heard of Luke Air Force Base? Yeah, that Luke.

After shooting down (setting ablaze is more like it) three German observation balloons, Luke's plane was disabled and he had to crash land. On the way down it is said he strafed German infantry with his machine guns. IIRC, this is a quote from the article: "He died in a hail of gunfire, blazing away at the German soldiers with his .45."

I always assumed that was a Colt Model of 1911 but IIRC, the article was not specific.

My speculation concerning that quote (and that's all it is) is that the weapon was probably a 1911. I think the common slang parlance of the day probably suggests "blazing away with his .45" as a reference to the 1911 auto, rather than any of the issued revolvers. But, that's just my interpretation. I suppose WWI pilots in U.S. service might have been packing nearly anything, despite any regulations otherwise, if there were any.

Cheers;
Lefty

 

[Timbo22]

mg357, Besides being a member of the forum, I am also a member of the League of World War I Aviation Historians. Their most resent publication, Over The Front, has a photo of several pilots of the 27th Aero Squadron at target practice with M1911s. BTW, Lt. Frank Luke was a member of the 27th. Hope this helps.

 

[Texas Star]

I think that Lefty is right: in his epochal book from the next world war, Ted Lawson wrote that his B-25 crew on the Doolittle Raid had all sorts of handguns and knives from home as well as issued .45 autos. He had his wife's Colt .32 auto and a Govt. .45. ( Thirty Seconds Over Tokyo, also a movie of the same name.)

Officers supplied their own sidearms, although most probably had the official models.

I thought it was a nice touch on author Suzanne Arruda's part to have her heroine's boyfriend Sam pack a Colt M-1917 in her latest epic, The Crocodile's Last Embrace. In a postscript, she explained that this is the version of the Colt New Service .45 that he carried,and that he had bought the (issued) gun after the war, in which he was a pilot.

Mrs. Arruda credited me in the acknowledgements of her last two books with giving her firearms advice, and I did. But this was something that she came up with on her own, although I suggested the New Service, inasmuch as she wanted Sam to carry a Colt, and she writes of the just post-WWi era , in colonial Kenya. Her books are quite good, and your wives may also enjoy them, as the protagonist is an American girl who drove an ambulance in the war, then went out to Africa with British friends. She solves crimes in her singular fashion, and the books are very authentic to the period and the setting. Her site may interest those who like good adventure books: www.suzannearruda.com

Still, had she left the matter to me, I'd have had Sam wear a commercial New Service in .45 Colt, because it's more powerful, and I like the better finish of the commercial version. But her reasoning about him carrying his former service weapon is certainly sound. I'm sure that many former officers did just that.

T-Star

 

[GatorFarmer]

If I remember correctly, Frank Luke took to carrying two 1917 revolvers around. He'd practice with them by driving a motorcycle fast and shooting at stop signs. His post crash final shoot out with the Germans was indicated by later research to probably be a myth.

British officers purchased their own guns, but some were more common than others. The Webley automatics and automatic revolver saw some use up in the air. I think the Royal Navy's flying elements actually issued the Webley autos.

Being an officer gave greater leeway in some things back then.

Luftwafee pilots had Lugers, Mausers, and a variety of small .25 and .32 handguns.

In the early days, before planes mounted MGs, the pilots would take potshots at each other with their pistols. Later it was mainly there to shoot yourself as opposed to a crash or burning. The Allies didn't issue parachutes, thinking that someone would panic and waste a perfectly good plane by bailing out. The Luftwaffe did begin offering pilots the option of a parachute.

Balloon crews always had parachutes. They'd also have rifles in addition to pistols.

Shotguns and the MP18 were also taken up in the air.

 

[n4zov]

Somewhere in the distant past, I've seen a photo of a M1911 equipped with a wire brass catcher mounted on the right side to catch ejected cases. Supposedly it was done to keep the cases from damaging the plane in some way. It wouldn't be possible to carry that contraption in a holster, so I wonder if it ever became an issue item or merely an idea that somebody came up with. I think that photo was in an old edition of W.H.B Smith's "Small Arms of the World."

 

[Texas Star]

Somewhere in the distant past, I've seen a photo of a M1911 equipped with a wire brass catcher mounted on the right side to catch ejected cases. Supposedly it was done to keep the cases from damaging the plane in some way. It wouldn't be possible to carry that contraption in a holster, so I wonder if it ever became an issue item or merely an idea that somebody came up with. I think that photo was in an old edition of W.H.B Smith's "Small Arms of the World."

I've seen that photo in several places. But I think it may have been an idea that didn't see much application in real life. There were also bayonets for Webley revolvers, and I doubt if many of those saw use,either.

 

[Texas Star]

If I remember correctly, Frank Luke took to carrying two 1917 revolvers around. He'd practice with them by driving a motorcycle fast and shooting at stop signs. His post crash final shoot out with the Germans was indicated by later research to probably be a myth.

British officers purchased their own guns, but some were more common than others. The Webley automatics and automatic revolver saw some use up in the air. I think the Royal Navy's flying elements actually issued the Webley autos.

Being an officer gave greater leeway in some things back then.

Luftwafee pilots had Lugers, Mausers, and a variety of small .25 and .32 handguns.

In the early days, before planes mounted MGs, the pilots would take potshots at each other with their pistols. Later it was mainly there to shoot yourself as opposed to a crash or burning. The Allies didn't issue parachutes, thinking that someone would panic and waste a perfectly good plane by bailing out. The Luftwaffe did begin offering pilots the option of a parachute.

Balloon crews always had parachutes. They'd also have rifles in addition to pistols.

Shotguns and the MP18 were also taken up in the air.

Gator-

Refresh my memory: didn't Frank Luke get the Medal of Honor?

 

[ddixie884]

YES!!!!!!!

 

[Gen.Eric Colt]

Had a Great uncle fought in the great war in France. He didnt wait for the U.S. to go to war, we are German, and there were old scorse to settle. He flew for the French and very early on he said he sawed down the barrel of a leveraction .45-70. Said he could steady it better than a revolver. He said he could kill a german plane as easy as you could kill a buffalo. I was a bug eyed kid listening to a old man when i heard this. Dont know if it true, but I never found out it wasnt

 

[Oscar Zulu]

The brass catcher for the .45 1911 was used with an extended magazine, 15 rounds I believe. It was to prevent empties from flying into the propellers of pusher type aircraft. Machine guns worked better!
O.Z.