Worn out barrel???

[jtybt]

Been going to the range 3 times a week since last January. I figure average of 80 rds a day so 240 a week or 960 a month. I go thru a lot of rds but that still sounds like a lot. A month or two ago I began having a hard time hitting a group. As time went on, I started missing the black. I know I'm starting to get old but that's ridiculous. The other day I put 300+ rds thru and sometimes I saw I was missing the whole target. Today I ran 200+ rds and they were all over the place. Went to pick up the target and VIOLA', 90% were keyholed. Made me feel better that maybe it wasn't me that was missing.

Now to the point, has anyone else worn out a barrel around 10,000 rds? I think it started showing around 7000 rds.


Charlie

 

[otisrush]

Check out this info.
http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/#accuracy

My quick read has me conclude that shooting out a barrel at the 10,000 round mark seems more than reasonable/expected.

I'm curious to know the deets of the gun: Brand, model, barrel construction, etc. Also - was it brass or steel cased ammo? And if brass - reloads?

OR

 

[OKFC05]

According t one of the premier aftermarket barrel makers, many "shot out" barrels have severe copper fouling that can be removed to restore most of the accuracy. Course, it also depends on your accuracy expectation to decide when you need a new barrel.


I have shot old milsurps with no rifling at all for several inches ahead of the chamber that would shoot 3 inch groups at 100 with jacketed ball.

 

[Brian in Oregon]

Barrel probably is worn out. However, as OKFC05 points out, it could be badly fouled. You have nothing to lose by using an aggressive copper dissolving cleaner like Sweet's 7.62 or similar. If it is fouled, the bore will have to be kept wet with repeated applications. Take the flash hider off. The dissolved copper will foul the inside with blue copper oxide.

 

[Culina]

If you have a stainless barrel or bare steel, its probably shot out, I believe a chrome lined barrel should last a a little longer.

 

[jtybt]

The rifle is a stock M&P15 sport (not II). The first couple thousand rds were Federal or PMC Gold, then Wolf gold Then Tula or wolf steel case with copper bullets. Then, because of the amount of rounds I was going thru, I've been using Tula steel...probably 5000 rds. Most were 55 gr but lately I've been using 62 and 75 gr JHP but I've also been trying to shoot off most of the 55gr.

Thanks otisrush for that link. I'll go thru it really carefully.

I ordered a replacement barrel. It sounded good...

Premium Grade Stainless .223 WYLDE Barrel, 16" Contour Barrel,1 in 8 twist Gas port drilled for carbine length gas set up, and threaded for comp. Barrel Extension in rear... drilled with a .070" gas port opening at carbine length. It has a .750 gas block diameter ready to install into receiver. .223 / 5.56 Nato. Chambered as 223 WYLDE. This barrel is made with 416 stainless gun barrel quality steel rated at a barrel life of 150,000 rounds!!

I'll scrub the heck outta the barrel and give it a hundred rounds and see what it looks like.


Thanks guys,
Charlie

 

[vonn]

I would really like to hear about the results after cleaning and shooting some 55 grain different ammo. How about a range report after you shoot it. I have also shot some old war horses that were really bad off that would still shoot better than what you are reporting. Thanks,Vonn

 

[Arik]

960 rounds x 12 months = 11,50xx rounds.

I know that the result isn't 100% exact but if your dates and numbers are more or less correct then that's about how much you shot. At this point you'd have to know what kind of barrel you have. A chrome lined should last a little longer.....up to 20k rounds but that also depends on the ammo. It could be that it's time for a new barrel

Sent from my XT1650 using Tapatalk

 

[otisrush]

This thread has made me decide I'm going go add a life goal of "Shoot out a barrel". That will be objective proof that I had fun.



OR

 

[rockquarry]

There are so many variables involved, it's hard to say how long any barrel will last, regardless of the gun it's attached to. Reportedly, overheating causes premature wear. The Colt manual states that 12-15 rounds per minute can be maintained without serious overheating. One would assume this advice would apply to other ARs as well.

However, years ago, a well-known barrelmaker, Ed Shilen stated that it would be difficult (he didn't say impossible) to damage a barrel from heat alone unless a machine gun was being fired.

I would guess many shooters don't really know how many rounds they have fired through a barrel and estimates may not even be close to the real number, large or small.

Cleaning? Copper buildup, unless a bore is badly neglected, doesn't affect accuracy as much as many think it does. Same with carbon fouling, but once it's built up to a point where accuracy deteriorates, carbon is extremely difficult to remove; far more trouble than copper fouling.

 

[apollo99]

I've never shot out a barrel, but it is entirely possible. I have seen some inaccuracy that was attributed to a coper fouled barrel. In that case a good cleaning with a solvent, and a neutralization afterwards did the trick. I have seen some barrels ruined due to poor cleaning practices, mostly over scrubbing with the wrong brushes. I'm curious to see if there is an improvement in accuracy after removing any fouling if there is any present.

 

[ChattanoogaPhil]

Round count isn't the only factor. Heat is an enemy of barrel life. I see you run through over 300rds in a range visit. Fast pace of fire along with some mag dumps and ammo type can affect the round count/barrel life equation.
Here's a link you might find interesting. Notice the significant changes in accuracy beyond 4k rounds.

http://www.luckygunner.com/labs/brass-vs-steel-cased-ammo/

 

[rockquarry]

Some copper removing products work faster than others, but many will remove the fouling, though some brushing is usually required. As for a carbon problem, I've tried a number of products and haven't found anything that works on a hard carbon buildup. All of them might be effective on very light fouling, but JB Paste and a lot of elbow grease is the only thing I've tried that will actually remove a heavy layer of carbon.

Many of us don't realize we have a problem with carbon until we see a deterioration in accuracy. Here's where a bore scope is indispensable.

 

[hdwhit]

jtybt wrote:
I figure average of ... 960 a month.

...

As time went on, I started missing the black. I know I'm starting to get old but that's ridiculous.

...

Now to the point, has anyone else worn out a barrel around 10,000 rds? I think it started showing around 7000 rds.

Others have already pointed out the LuckyGunner article.

You've also already answered ammunition type/bullet construction in another post, but how long would it take you to shoot the average 80 rounds?

How often did you clean the rifle and what was it cleaned with?

Have you visually inspected the rifling of the barrel from both the muzzle and breach?

Have you verified the function and integrity of all other components of the rifle (i.e. sights that may have gradually loosened, gas key that is working loose, buffer tube/buffer tube nut that is loose, etc.)?

I'm inclined to agree with you that with 10,000+ rounds and bullets consistently keyholing, the barrel is probably shot out, but it pays to make sure.

You may also want to address other components of the gun that are liable to wear out with use like components of the bolt and bolt garrier, gas tube and such.

 

[growr]

A more likely problem is throat erosion.....where a bolt action rifle can have a barrel set back, a auto loader cannot. A set of Go-NoGo guages will confirm that.

When I shot NRA Service Rifle matches the throat would be gone before the rifling would...could usually get about 8-9000 rounds downrange before needing to rebarrel.

Randy

 

[jtybt]

Scrubbed the chamber real good and ran a brush thru the bore a half dozen times. I can clearly see the lands and grooves but it doesn't look like it did when new. The new bore looked like a bunch of skinny ridges but now it looks like wide lands. Don't know what that means.

Shooting 3 times a week, I don't clean the gun after every use like I did when new. Lately, I clean her when a cartridge gets stuck in the chamber. That mean there's a carbon build-up in the chamber. I also run her on the wet side.

Tomorrow is shooting day. I'll report on what happens.

 

[jtybt]

More info...
I noticed my scope was a tiny bit loose. I removed the scope to tighten the mount. Bolts were tight. swapped scopes anyway when I shot the last 200+ and keyholed the target.

I use 'ol Hoppes #9 on the bore. I put the chamber brush deep in the chamber and pour #9 on top. It drains slowly to give as much time to soak the bore. I do this twice.

I also use a combination of different solvents all mixed together. Diesel, lacquer thinner, white gas and some MEK(from my boat building box of fiberglass stuff).
I spray this stuff to rinse down EVERYTHING to wash off any carbon and grit.

 

[otisrush]

I'm still digesting the fact you're doing 960 rounds per month. That is fantastic.

You are my inspiration. ROFL

 

[JaPes]

Say the OP shot factory new ammo, brass case, 55gr FMJ, of a single brand.

1K rounds of Wolf Gold shipped is about $315 shipped. 31.5¢ per round.

960 rounds a month since last January is 10,560 rounds. Add another 240 to get to this week. 10,800 rounds.

10,800 X 31.5¢ = $3,402 in ammo.

Dude. Given the dollar amount of ammo you've burned through to date, you can afford a new barrel. Given the glut of AR-15 parts on the market, it's probably cheaper to buy a whole complete, furniture-less, upper with BCG. That way you get a new barrel, bolt carrier group, gas block, gas tube, etc. Transfer over your furniture and optic.

 

[jtybt]

Unfortunately it's been raining for the last couple of days. The range turns into a 100 yd mud crawl. They probably shut down the range early anyway. Gotta go shopping for rain boots.