Would it be worth it to obtain a FFL??

[Rule3]

For the purpose of selling an estate worth of guns, would it be cost effective or worth it to get a FFL.? I am thinking this would allow me to sell the guns without having the hassle of going to a local FFL, and dealing with fees and packing. I would be able to mail them directly myself.

Per the website it is supposed to take 60 days and cost $200.

The main reason I am considering this is to avoid paying another FFL a fee for each gun sold. If the license only costs $200 then it seems to be a better deal expense wise.
I could post sales online or online auctions.

This would only be for selling firearms online, not buying more to sell, and would be based at home with no customers coming to the home.

I just do not know about all the inspections, interview and those things.????

Is it worth it to deal with the Federal Rules and Regs?

Please do not contact me as I am not selling anything at this time

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/how-to/become-an-ffl.html

Any help, hints, ideas from those with a FFL or have had a FFL appreciated.

 

[Gunslinger808]

Biggest problem with trying to deal out of your residence will be local zoning ordinances.
Check with your zoning commission first.
If there are no regulations prohibiting it, then go for it.

The inspections and interviews are nothing to worry about.
One thing that will make it easier is having a safe(s) to store the firearms.
When they inspect, their main concern is storage, and handling of the paperwork such as 4473's and record of recipt/disposition bound books.

The ATF agents I've dealt with were actually helpfull and willing to answer all my questions.

 

[diamonback68]

Years ago there were thousands of FFLs working out of their house the BATFE has pretty much reduced those numbers to nil.
It has been my understanding, for some time now, that they no longer issue new licenses without a brick and mortar storefront. Perhaps requirements have eased somewhat, but I doubt it.

 

[gm272gs]

I can tell you that they want you to enter into it with the intent to make money and pay taxes.

The days of getting an FFL so you can do transfers for yourself and your friends, are over.

 

[CAJUNLAWYER]

How many guns? I would posit that liquidating an estate would not fall into selling as a business but don't go on that. I would PM Handejector and ask him. I value his opinion regarding this. You may also try to get a letter opinion from the local ATF as to whether or not you could liquidate an estate without going through an FFL . But talk to Lee he will be helpfull

 

[diamonback68]

I can tell you that they want you to enter into it with the intent to make money and pay taxes.

The days of getting an FFL so you can do transfers for yourself and your friends, are over.

Good point. You would probably have to pay tax on the original buying price versus resale difference. I doubt they'd buy the idea that you sold guns and made NO profit, the Guvmint wants their due.

 

[Rule3]

Why would a FFL have anything to do with the profit or loss of sales.? That/s for the tax collector and business license (which just brought up another question) I would probably have to obtain a local County business license If I sell now and transfer through a FFL and actualy make money (not usually!) there is no reporting of profit on person items.

My City, County allows business out of the home as long as customers are not coming and going from the location. So a mail order or similar is OK. My Neighbor behind me was a FFL for many years but for some reason got out of it.Most of his was gun broker.

This is not for doing transfers for other folks.In fact I do not want to do that but read on the ATF sight that they want you to do that??

I think a call to the ATF may be the way. I called them a year ago about something and they were very nice and helpful.

I really do not want Federal Agents in my home.Nothing to hide, just sounds weird.

 

[Autococker07]

Why not sell them on the auction site of your choice, and add that the recipient must pay actual shipping to an FFL in their state who accepts from an individual? Although expensive, it is still legal for an individual to ship a gun, but only an FFL can legally receive one.....

 

[Gunslinger808]

It has been my understanding, for some time now, that they no longer issue new licenses without a brick and mortar storefront.

ATF cannnot deny you a license for doing it out of your residence.
What they did was go to the zoning commission and deny folks on the grounds that most residences are not zoned for commercial.
If you live in an unincorperated area your good 2 go.

This is not for doing transfers for other folks.In fact I do not want to do that but read on the ATF sight that they want you to do that??

When they do the yearly inspection, one of the big things hey look at is how many 4473s were done vs how many firearms were ordered in.
They'll try and gig someone for collecting, rather than selling.
Transfers are good, they're a quick buck and pad your numbers.

 

[Rule3]

Why not sell them on the auction site of your choice, and add that the recipient must pay actual shipping to an FFL in their state who accepts from an individual? Although expensive, it is still legal for an individual to ship a gun, but only an FFL can legally receive one.....

True but then I have to use UPS or Fed Ex which is much more expensive that USPS Flat Rate (which FFL can do) It then adds to the price of the gun. $15 shipping VS $50 or more UPS 2 day.

Some FFL's will not accept a transfer from a non licensee. It's their choice.

 

[arjay]

I have an lgs which will pack and ship for me @$45 which is a lot cheaper than FedEx or ups overnight.Maybe check with a few of them and see if you can work a volume price?

 

[diamonback68]

Why would a FFL have anything to do with the profit or loss of sales.? That/s for the tax collector and business license (which just brought up another question) I would probably have to obtain a local County business license

I meant the Tax Collector and the IRS.
You let the government in your house for all to enter. The other thing is, they'll probably want you to charge and collect sales tax, after all you are in business now and expected to make a profit.
The whole thing seems like too much hassle to me just to sell a collection.
I had a rather large collection of Colt Diamondbacks and S&Ws and to help my son with his cancer medical bills sold almost all of them at gun shows and to local people through LGS referrals. Got rid of about 25 that way and never shipped a single gun.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Just my two cents, but I've been party to more than one estate sale/auction/yard sale, and there was never a mention of sales tax. For these purposes, why would selling a gun be different than selling a bedroom set? The state would certainly have a say in private party sales of a firearm, but many states, Missouri included, have no restrictions on that. Just make sure you're not selling to a prohibited person, and all is well.

 

[jrm53]

Advice from an ex-FFl

I used to have an FFl from1980 thru 1994, you would not believe the hoops you will have to jump through to meet the standards they will set for you, if you do not live in the country you will have to go to city council where you live and they will have all kinds of obstacles for you deal with. You must have a place of business for walk ins and posted hours, you could be open one day a week or as many as you wanted, I never had a vist from the ATF people all the time I was doing business. They can vist any time and look at your bound book and records. At the time I was doing a little work on other peoples revolvers and installing and making compensators for Colt style combat autos. If I kept a frame or a complete revolver over night I had to have the owner fill out a 4473 form to get it back, just like if you pawn a weapon you will do the paper work if you redeem it just like when you first bought it. After two years of listening to Clinton talk about kitchen table dealers I folded up and sent the license and book and forms to Falling Waters Va. and quit. Jeff

 

[diamonback68]

Just my two cents, but I've been party to more than one estate sale/auction/yard sale, and there was never a mention of sales tax. For these purposes, why would selling a gun be different than selling a bedroom set?

Because he's talking about getting an FFL license and a BUSINESS license to liquidate the estate.
He would also have to do a NICS background check on all buyers and pay the fee.
And it goes on and on.
I thought about in once and am glad the thought is long gone now.

 

[bushmaster1313]

True but then I have to use UPS or Fed Ex which is much more expensive that USPS Flat Rate (which FFL can do) It then adds to the price of the gun. $15 shipping VS $50 or more UPS 2 day.

Some FFL's will not accept a transfer from a non licensee. It's their choice.

You can ship long guns via the post office but not handguns

 

[jtcarm]

Biggest problem with trying to deal out of your residence will be local zoning ordinances.

Check with your zoning commission first.

If there are no regulations prohibiting it, then go for it.

I can't see that being a problem based on the number of FFLs operating out of their homes. I was one of them from about 87-97.

Are you selling mostly handguns, or long guns? The latter can be shipped USPS by an individual to an FFL in another state. Handguns can be shipped FedEx or UPS priority overnight, but that's VERY expensive.

I pay a $15 transfer fee to ship. I've heard it can be a lot more in other states. You might look on Guns America or Gunbroker for local transfer FFLs and tell them you expect to be shipping a lot of guns. Maybe they'll give you a volume discount.
Remember once you transfer the gun to the local dealer, you're at their mercy, so choose carefully. I purchase all postage & insurance and pack the handgun so all they have to do is paperwork and drop it in the mail.

The only reason to get an FFL is if you want to ship handguns.

 

[2hawk]

A law enforcement officer was once quoted as saying, "Never invite the man into your life, unless it is absolutely necessary."

Words to live by, if you were to ask me...




ETA former FFL holder here.

 

[islandguy]

You can ship long guns via the post office but not handguns

As someone who has American roots going back a ways, including native American blood, its hard to believe that the US can still claim to be the land of the free. Up here, in Kanuckistan, I can (privately) sell a long gun or a handgun to a fellow Canadian (anywhere in the country), drop the firearm off at the local post office, and the buyer can pick it up at the other end with no questions asked. In the case of a handgun, the buyer and seller must first arrange for a transfer of registration with the RCMP by phone, and then must arrange for a short-term Authorization To Transport form (P.O. to home) from the local RCMP Chief Firearms Officer, which can be applied for by phone and received via email. In the case of picking up a long gun, its simply a matter of going to the post office and handing in the delivery notice that arrives in one's mailbox. Our current Conservative government abolished the long-gun registry for us a while back, thank goodness.

 

[Muss Muggins]

Because he's talking about getting an FFL license and a BUSINESS license to liquidate the estate.
He would also have to do a NICS background check on all buyers and pay the fee.
And it goes on and on.
I thought about in once and am glad the thought is long gone now.

Agreed. My point, as I think is yours, is that it is unnecessary. I am going through the same process, and through a series of private party hand to hand sales and consignment, we've liquidated a very large collection for my mother's benefit in short order. The private party sales were with law enforcement, people with security clearances, and persons known to us who signed bills of sale acknowledging their legal ability to possess a firearm. The consignments were at a very reasonable 15% commission. Everybody is happy, and nobody owes any sales tax, except for the purchasers from the LGS.