Wow! A Fabrica De Armas WHAT.....?

[rwsmith]

Gun shop foray - Saw a Fabrica De Armas 1902 7mm 'short' rifle for $139. Seems that they are a Mauser action. Are these things supposed to be shootable????? Light. Loaded light they might be fun. They have that 'ladder' sight similar to Winchesters and Japanese 'anti aircraft' sights on the Japanese 7.7mm. I see references to 'Oviedo' and 'Halcon'. Some sound Spanish and some sound Argentinian. Can somebody shed light on these?

 

[Pisgah]

Basically a Mauser 1895, manufactured in Spain. Assuming it is in sound condition, it should be safe and shootable in the original chambering, 7x57.

 

[alwslate]

The Spanish made Mauser 93s or 95s are notorious for being made of
soft or very soft low grade steel. Not too long ago I was thinking
about buying one of the Spanish rifles converted to the 7.62 Cetme
ctg sold as surplus and commonly used with .308 ammo. A little bit
of searching on the net quickly convinced me to forget about it.
Your $139 would probably be better spent elsewhere.

 

[Texas Star]

Oviedo is in Spain. The rifles may be the M-1916. These are basically shorter M-93's.

Avoid them.

If you don't know Mausers pretty well, get the books before buying one. Look for, Mauser Military Rifles of the World. Several editions. They discuss not only the rifles; they present good histories of the using countries. Many photos, some of the rifles in use when in service.

 

[DWalt]

The 7mm M1916 Spanish Mauser short rifles are interesting. They use the same M93 Spanish Mauser action (made in Spain). They originally had a crest on the receiver ring, sort of a Roman fasces and sword, lightly struck, but after the Spanish Civil War of the 1930s, Generalissimo Francisco Franco had the crests polished off. I guess he was offended by it. I have one of those crest-less M1916s, bought it maybe 20 years ago for $15, but it is in near-perfect condition. Shoots excellent groups with 7mm. I have also heard tales about the "dangerous soft steel" of the receivers, but I have never heard of any of them failing, in any caliber, even those chambered to .308 in the 1950s (some debate as to whether it is .308 or something else). I think the danger is just an unfounded myth, as the same thing is often said about the M95 and M96 Swedish Mauser actions, and I have never heard anything about those failing under any circumstances either. I own some of those also.

 

[gwpercle]

The 7mm M1916 Spanish Mauser short rifles are interesting. They use the same M93 Spanish Mauser action (made in Spain). They originally had a crest on the receiver ring, sort of a Roman fasces and sword, lightly struck, but after the Spanish Civil War of the 1930s, Generalissimo Francisco Franco had the crests polished off. I guess he was offended by it. I have one of those crest-less M1916s, bought it maybe 20 years ago for $15, but it is in near-perfect condition. Shoots excellent groups with 7mm. I have also heard tales about the "dangerous soft steel" of the receivers, but I have never heard of any of them failing, in any caliber, even those chambered to .308 in the 1950s (some debate as to whether it is .308 or something else). I think the danger is just an unfounded myth, as the same thing is often said about the M95 and M96 Swedish Mauser actions, and I have never heard anything about those failing under any circumstances either. I own some of those also.

I have one of these , crestless 7x57 , purchased from all places, Montgomery Wards , 40 years ago.
I wanted to have it re barreled to 358 Winchester , Gunsmith said NO , leave it in 7x57. Had him cut the military barrel to 20 inches, install Williams open sights , drill and tap for scope bases. I ordered a Herter's full length Mannilicher stock in black walnut and restocked it. The first time I shot it at 75 yards with the light fading fast, 3 shots off hand, open sights , formed a group a quarter would cover , glad I took his advice.
Beautifully made . excellent accuracy , leave it in 7x57 and buy it.
I'm still hunting with mine .
Gary

 

[alwslate]

The 7mm M1916 Spanish Mauser short rifles are interesting. They use the same M93 Spanish Mauser action (made in Spain). They originally had a crest on the receiver ring, sort of a Roman fasces and sword, lightly struck, but after the Spanish Civil War of the 1930s, Generalissimo Francisco Franco had the crests polished off. I guess he was offended by it. I have one of those crest-less M1916s, bought it maybe 20 years ago for $15, but it is in near-perfect condition. Shoots excellent groups with 7mm. I have also heard tales about the "dangerous soft steel" of the receivers, but I have never heard of any of them failing, in any caliber, even those chambered to .308 in the 1950s (some debate as to whether it is .308 or something else). I think the danger is just an unfounded myth, as the same thing is often said about the M95 and M96 Swedish Mauser actions, and I have never heard anything about those failing under any circumstances either. I own some of those also.

This issue has been discussed here before. If you really think
the soft steel Spanish Mauser stories are unfounded myth I
urge you to look for some real information on the net from
owners. I've seen pics of receivers with the barrel removed,
which is the only way to really see the damage. Some of
the receivers were ruined beyond repair by locking lug
set-back that was way too deep to be resurfaced after only
10 shots or less of full power ammo. Many of the owners
of the 1916 .308 conversions only shoot them with light
cast bullet plinking loads.

 

[Texas Star]

The Swedish M-96's and the M-38's get a lot of good publicity, but the Lowe and DWM made M-95's for Chile and the Boer republics were also beautifully made. I had one that looked new. Shot it without incident with 139 grain CIL Dominion and 175 grain Remington ammo. Shot very high at 100 yards. Not too bad otherwise, given iron sights at 100 yards.

I suspect that the Brazilian M-1908 Short Rifle and the similar ones from FN in 1924 and 1950 and the Czech equivalents were really nice when new. FN made some in the 1950 model for Belgium and for Columbia... in .30-06!

Alas, most of these were not well cared for, and finding a good one is rare and pricey. The Mauser Standard Modell of the 1930's was also especially nice and was, I think, the basis for the K-98k.

I favor Lee-Enfields in Milsurp rifles, with my Mausers being sporting rifles. I like the Winchester M-70 even more, but would certainly not turn down a Rigby or Westley Richards on a Mauser action. Frankly, unless I was a Mauser collector, I wouldn't buy a Spanish-made one. Those made for them in Germany are good rifles, if usually not well preserved. I'd look instead for a M-95 or a Swedish M-96. Either the German or the Swedish-made M-96's are good, if in good shape. And the Swedes usually took better care of their rifles than did many nations.

Overall, it is a very bad idea to buy any gun that you haven't read about and don't understand. I won't buy one that I haven't personally examined, even a new one.

 

[alwslate]

Many owners of the 93 and 95 Mausers probably don't realize that
back when they were originally designed for the 7x57 military ctg that
the original military round with it's 173 gr FMJ bullet was a pretty low
pressure round. Around 37,000 CUP which is pretty mild compared to
the 50,000 CUP .308. Some pre 98 Mausers are indeed beautifully
made rifles. Again the significant issue is design. The Spanish pre 98
rifles might best be used for display or cast bullet handloads because
of metalurgy. But the better quality rifles can surely be a joy to own
and use as long as their limitations are considered. It goes back to
design and the fact that the pre 98 Mauser designs do not handle
escaping gas very well, or at all. In a recent issue of Rifle magazine
Mike Venturino showed a pic of a Swedish rifle action that was blown
to pieces by a round that had a case head failure. In a large ring 98
that would have been pretty much a non event. I have owned pre 98
Mausers in the past but I don't currently have any. In the unlikely
event that I own one in the future I would shoot it only with my own
mild handloads.

 

[BigBill]

SAMCO global arms had a independent testing agency actually test the converted mausers they were offering. It blew up at 90,000 cup which is well within the 308 specs. Just keep the 308 ammo to low side no hot loads.

 

[Arik]

...........

 

[alwslate]

The Kuhnhausen Manual for Mauser Rifles is a good resource if you
own Mausers. On page 69 and again on page 159 there is a pic of a
sectioned Spanish mod 1916 receiver that has been ruined by the
bolt locking lugs pounding .009 deep, nine thousandths, indentations
into the lug recess area. He says some Spanish receivers have seen
that were softer than 1020 American steel which is called cold rolled
steel. I have read that some of the Spanish receivers appeared to
have never been hardened at all, just made of soft low grade steel
and used as they were.