Yay for 4 inch Python, Boo for 6 inch Highway Patrolman

[Doug.38PR]

I just did a little experimenting. I was somewhat impressed with my 4 inch Python but a little disappointed in my 6 inch Highway Patrolman.

.357 Magnum 158 gr. LSWC (Hard) 4 inch 1980 Colt Python

14 grains 2400: 1246, 1234, 1260, 1238, 1176, 1233

14.3 grains 2400: 1220, 1256, 1220, 1263, 1200, 1178

14.4 grains 2400: 1258, 1219, 1219 (nonread?), ERR 2, ERR2, ERR2

14.5 grains 2400:1311, 1341, 1323, 1333, ERR2, ERR2

14.6 grains 2400: 1353, 1345


.357 Magnum 158 gr., LSWC (Hard) 6 inch 1977 Smith & Wesson Highway Patrolman M-28-2

14.3 grains 2400: 1216, 1205, 1238, 1204, 1215, 1243, 1269

15.0 grains 2400: 1356, 1363, 1363


Particularly on the 14.3 grains of 2400, the Python did as well or slightly better than the Highway Patrolman with a much longer barrel.

I'm wondering if I should see a gunsmith about having the gap between cylinder and force cone closed by having the barrel screwed in a tad more. (visually it looks like the Highway Patrolman has wider cylinder gap than the Python.)

 

[brucev]

With extreme respect, try some other loads. It's that simple. Every single firearm ever made, will produce different velocities with various loads. That's just the way it is. Longer barrels do not always produce the highest velocities... shorter barrels do not always out perform snub noses... depending on the load used. This is true of all long arms and handguns, including run of the mill guns like Colt... and even truly remarkable guns like S&W. . In all seriousness, bc gap is only one of a number of factors in what velocity a revolver produces with a particular load. JMHO. Sincerely. brucev.

 

[Dennis The B]

Here's a link to an article, originally published in one of the earlier Speer Reloading Manuals. It really sets to light the variances in components, guns, etc.:

Why Ballisticians Get Gray

 

[Big Cholla]

I pains me to retell the story but you struck a chord with me. Same experience, different page. I bought a beautiful 4"Python that had been custom shopped by Colt for a local Lawman. I loved shooting it as it would shoot anything put into it accurately. I got the itch for a 6" Python about 15 years later and couldn't afford the then Python prices. I wasn't gunsmithing at the time so had a local Pistolsmith swap the barrels. He reduced his price considerably by him keeping my 4" barrel. I didn't get to shoot the new 6" Python for about 6 months. It shot patterns NOT groups. I worked for a year trying to find something it would shoot. Even the velocities were all down from the original 4" bbl. I finally gave it up and sold it. The Pistolsmith was long gone and couldn't get my original barrel back. I learned a big lesson. ........... Big Cholla

 

[rwsmith]

i like how they......

Here's a link to an article, originally published in one of the earlier Speer Reloading Manuals. It really sets to light the variances in components, guns, etc.:

Why Ballisticians Get Gray

They used the same make, model, and barrel length of many guns and got widely varying results.

Tighten up the gap only if is out of spec. The difference may be in the exact size of the bore.

 

[6GUNSONLY]

Real world ballistics don't always follow the "rules" like "longer barrel = more velocity." Personally, I'd say "don't sweat it." Nothing you ever shoot is going to know the difference. Strive for consistency and accuracy and don't spend too much time worrying about a few fps one way or the other. JMO, of course.

 

[Alk8944]

You are expecting too much! While, as a general rule, longer barrels will give higher velocities than shorter barrels 'taint always so!

Example from some of my own guns:

.38 Spl. My 5" M&P Built ca. 1950 delivers higher velocities than my 6 1/2" Outdoorsman. It does this consistently.

.38 Spl. My 1927 Colt "Officers Model Target", which is a 7 1/2" gun, is consistently slower than most of my 4" and 5" S&W revolvers, with the same load.

.357 Magnum. My 4" Model 19 consistently delivers velocities equal to my 6" HP or 6 1/2" Model 27.

Mixed: The 4" 19 gives higher velocities with .38 Spl. than the above 5" M&P, even though the M&P is "faster" that the longer guns!

Handguns, revolvers in particular, are dynamic mechanisms which contain un-quantifiable dufferences in construction which defy identifying why one gun is "faster, or slower" than another when everything appears to be identical. I have set barrels back in revolvers to reduce the barrel-cylinder gap because "everyone knows" that this affects velocity! Even reducing the B-C gap from .012 t0 .004 in one case, resulted in absolutely zero average velocity change when chronographed with the same loads both before and after the adjustment! Go Figure!

Each gun is a law unto itself and will give whatever performance it will. No, it isn't logical, but it is just the way things are in revolver performance.

Python's are wonderful revolvers and I had coveted one for years, but they are not magic.

 

[Doug.38PR]

Here's a link to an article, originally published in one of the earlier Speer Reloading Manuals. It really sets to light the variances in components, guns, etc.:

Why Ballisticians Get Gray

Yes, I am well aware of these variables. I've even heard tell of snubbies outrunning 6 inch barrels.

At the risk of offending S&W fans, I have heard that Colt barrels tended to produce slightly better velocities compared to some of the S&W counterparts. And a Python has earned the name of "Rolls Royce of Revolvers" (and the Highway Patrolman is officially a "budget gun" although I think this has more to do with irrelevant touchups compared to the M27)

But still, Python aside, I was expecting a little more out of the S&W 6 inch. On average, more or less, most ballistics I've read of tend to have 100 ft per second difference every 2 inches you take or add to the barrel length. (I know it's not written in stone)

I was expecting to at least be well over 1300 ft per second with the 6 inch barrel. So I thought closing the gap between cylinder and cone might optimize the gun

 

[one eye joe]

With extreme respect, try some other loads. It's that simple. Every single firearm ever made, will produce different velocities with various loads. That's just the way it is. Longer barrels do not always produce the highest velocities... shorter barrels do not always out perform snub noses... depending on the load used. This is true of all long arms and handguns, including run of the mill guns like Colt... and even truly remarkable guns like S&W. . In all seriousness, bc gap is only one of a number of factors in what velocity a revolver produces with a particular load. JMHO. Sincerely. brucev.

THAT GAVE ME A CHUCKLE, brucev. I AGREE WITH YOU IN THEORY, ALTHOUGH THE FACT THAT THE PYTHONS WERE HAND FITTED MIGHT HAVE SOMETHING TO DO WITH IT. I WOULD ALSO TRY THE SAME LOADS OUT OF A DIFFERENT S&W OF THE SAME MODEL AND BARREL LENGTH IF POSSIBLE……...

 

[jproffitt]

Two of my best shooting guns are a 6" Python and a 6" Highway Patrolman.

 

[Rick_A]

What they said.

 

[RED DOG G]

I have experienced similar results a number of times with different guns/calibers. Higher velocity from shorter barrel with exact same load. More often than not I have traced it back to smaller throat diameter. That being said, like others have stated the variables involved give us a myriad of possibilities. One of the things that make handloading so much fun.

 

[Goblin]

My pythons give higher velocities than my model 19 in the six inch versions. Luck? Maybe, maybe not.

 

[fredj338]

Might also be tighter bore on the Python. I had. 2 3/4" ruger ss that was faster than 3 other 4" guns.

 

[Jellybean]

Is this about velocity or accuracy?

 

[scooter123]

As has been previously noted some barrels just shoot faster than others. As for why, that will likely be a Mystery until NASA or same level scientific organization decides to find out. I can also tell you as a Dan Wesson owner that changes in the Barrel/Cylinder gap don't produce observable differences in velocity until the gap is less than 0.002 inch or larger than about 0.012 inch. So don't waste your money on having that B/C gap tuned unless it's outside of that range.

 

[muddocktor]

Yep, I have to agree with scooter on this. I have 2 different Model 27s, a 5" barrel and a 6 1/2" barrel. Both are "new old stock" type pistols I bought recently. The 5" was still virgin; the first rounds it's ever had shot through it besides the proof test rounds S&W shot before leaving the factory were shot over the chrono when I checked this and the 6 1/2" gun had only had 270 rounds or so shot through it by myself from it being virgin, so wear wasn't any factor. And the 5" barrel pistol always shot the same loads faster than the 6 1/2" gun.

The TLDR version of this post is don't sweat it. That's normal gun-to-gun variation.

 

[shil]

Using your 14.3 2400 loading results, the average velocity of the Model 28 is slightly higher; 1229.17 as opposed to 1222.83 from the Colt. I ask: is that difference really enough to agonize about?

 

[ironhead7544]

The Python has a tapered bore smaller toward the muzzle. It can give better velocities from cast bullets.

Try some different powders. I have noticed over the years that 2400, 296/H110, AA#9 and IMR4227 can vary a bit as to the winner with top loads. In one M686 4 inch, the AA#9 load gave a full 100 fps faster than the others with a 187gr WFNGC cast bullet.

Your velocities with the M28 look just fine to me.

 

[Vulcan Bob]

As in most things, results do vary!