Your Spanish S&W copies - let's see 'em!

[Goony]

This one, in .38 Special caliber, was manufactured by N. Arizmendi y Cia of Eibar, and proudly marked "MADE IN SPAN" (really, not a typo on my part). Outwardly it strongly resembles an M&P from the 1920's. A very un-S&W deviation from that pattern is that it's a solid frame design (no sideplate). The only access to the action is via a removable triggerguard.

 

[cmort666]

I don't own any of these, but they and the Colt (and Pieper) copies are one of my favorite parts of the A.B. Zhuk book of line drawings of handguns.

There are tons of different variations on everything from side plates to cylinder latches.

A lot of them seem to have been .38 Long Colt rather than .38 Special, although supposedly a lot are bored straight through and will take Specials, although it's a bad idea to use them.

 

[Goony]

There are tons of different variations on everything from side plates to cylinder latches.

I can see how someone could get into collecting these, as it could be more interesting from a technical standpoint than just accumulating a bunch of the more common S&W's that are more alike than different. Plus, I imagine certain Spanish S&W copies are genuinely rare, both because in some instances they were made in cottage industry quantities, and also on account of their having tended to be discarded rather than repaired (lack of parts and economic incentive). Of course, there's probably no money in such a pursuit, which is why there isn't a SSWCCA.

Still, I'm surprised by the lack of response to this thread up to now. Nobody's got one of these to share, or is too embarrassed to admit to having one (or a bunch)?

 

[pilgrim6a]

I wish I still had this one or at least gotten pics. It was a .38 S&W top break DA. The markings were this.
SMILL & WELSON. SPRANGFELD MUS. Followed by the normal patent dates. The dates were all one digit off from a real S&W.

 

[350x]

Any known parts source for these?

I need a few

 

[walnutred]

I've had a few over they years with my favorites being the ones chambered in 8mm. Just none now to show pictures of.

 

[Goony]

I wish I still had this one or at least gotten pics. It was a .38 S&W top break DA. The markings were this.
SMILL & WELSON. SPRANGFELD MUS. Followed by the normal patent dates. The dates were all one digit off from a real S&W.

There is genre of S&W copy that was meant to deceive a person illiterate in English (or even the English alphabet) into thinking it was a genuine Smith & Wesson product. These were typically of Asian origin. A revolver of this nature is pictured in the thread: http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/200079-heres-one-ill-bet-youve-never-seen.html

The Spanish guns I'm referring to were generally marked properly with their makers' names, openly and legally trafficked, and while outwardly resembling S&W products (mostly the M&P, but also top break models and even the triple lock), generally did not infringe on S&W patents. It might be more accurate to term them as being Smith & Wesson "inspired" than as copies.

 

[cmort666]

I think there's a drawing of a virtually identical gun in the Zhuk book.

Any known parts source for these?

Your local machine shop... if you've got a broken part to copy. Doubtless more than the gun itself is worth.

 

[cmort666]

There is genre of S&W copy that was meant to deceive a person illiterate in English (or even the English alphabet) into thinking it was a genuine Smith & Wesson product. These were typically of Asian origin.

There's a similar genre of semi-auto pistols that were made in China before 1949. Some of them are copies of Browning M1900s, other guns, or frequently, a mishmash of design features. They were mostly handmade, and in job lot quantities for various Chinese warlord operations. A particular "army's" purchasing agent would give general guidelines for caliber, size, weight, magazine capacity and operating controls. Then some little shop would run off a batch of guns, roughly meeting the specification.

There are a BUNCH of them in the Zhuk book. There was a guy who once came to the Ohio Gun Collector's Association Show at the IX Center in Cleveland. He was a collector of these guns, and had a flier that used some of the drawings from the Zhuk book. He said that since nobody wanted them, they were dirt cheap, but since there were so MANY variations they were great fun to collect.

Pretty much the same comments apply to European copies of British "bulldog", "kobold" and similar pocket revolvers.

 

[Goony]

There's a similar genre of semi-auto pistols that were made in China before 1949. Some of them are copies of Browning M1900s...

I have one of these M1900 copies, I'll have to dig it out and get a photo of it.

 

[Goony]

This revolver appears to be pretty Colt-ish (yeah, the Spanish did takes on Sam's stuff, too).

Does it have a maker's name on it? Also, what caliber is it?

 

[350x]

32-20?

 

[cmort666]

I have one of these M1900 copies, I'll have to dig it out and get a photo of it.

Incidentally, the North Koreans made a copy of the M1900 in both regular and suppressed versions. They were current issue when I was in the ROK in '80-'81.

 

[linde]

One of the better quality made-in-Spain M&P copies was the ALFA . . . the tradename of Armero Especialistas Reunidas of Eibar, Spain circa 1920.

Here is a previous thread on the ALFA in 38 Long Colt . . . complete with pictures. Note the hybred Colt-S&W lockwork in post #14.

http://smith-wessonforum.com/lounge/145045-help-identify-alfa-revolver.html

Russ

 

[Goony]

Straying off-topic here, but...

Here's that likely Chinese copy of an FN Model 1900. The grips appear to be carved from buffalo horn. I've included a close-up of the goofy markings, consisting of a crudely rendered FN logo, underneath which the word NATIONALE appears twice. Above, that same word's repeated five times in a row. There's also some "proof marks" for good measure.

I'm still a bit perplexed by the lack of Spanish S&W copy pictures this thread has elicited. I thought every S&W collector would have at least one as a conversation piece....

 

[therevjay]

Sorry don't have a digital camera, and wouldn't know how to post a pic if I did.

But I do have a "Orbea" marked .38 Largo (I assume .38 long Colt) it seems to be quite well made. The backstrap is also stamped "Policia De La provencia De Buenos Aires"

 

[Goony]

Orbea Hermanos was an early and at one time premier Spanish manufacturer of sidearms.

Evidently yours was exported to Argentina. Wonder how it found ts way to the United States?

 

[therevjay]

Orbea Hermanos was an early and at one time premier Spanish manufacturer of sidearms.

Evidently yours was exported to Argentina. Wonder how it found ts way to the United States?

A few years ago there was a bunch advertised in "Shotgun news." I don't remember the price but it was less then $100 includeing s&h.

 

[Goony]

Here's an excellent webpage showing various Orbea Hermanos revolvers:

Orbea Hermanos

Really worth a look.

 

[Cyrano]

Drat! Last week I sold my two Mle 92 Espagnol revolvers, including a Trocala y Aranzabal, chambered for the 8mm French Mle 92 cartridge. I have a picture, but it's too big for a thumbnail. I had an Anitua and have a Cordero but they look like a Colt on the outside; they look like nothing else on earth on the inside.