You're Gettin' a J Frame....38 or 357...Your Pick??

Choosing the right J frame is tough! Started out with a model 638 since I liked the fact it could be shot single action if needed. Later decided the single action aspect wasn't needed so then bought a model 642. The 642 seemed to be perfect, it was light, shot to the point of aim, but recoil with hot hand loads and +P was tough to control. Decided a little more weight would help with the recoil so bought a model 640 found it to be best suited to what I wanted, handles the hot stuff and less recoil. Of course I kept the 638 and 642 so now I have plenty of options!
 
36general said:
My first J frame was the 340pd. I chose this model bc I wanted an incredibly light gun for pocket carry. At times, I forget that it is even in my pocket. IMO you could not ask for a better pocket carry revolver. I carry .357 135gr. Speer Gold Dots. While recoil is stout, it's by no means too violent to shoot. I like the idea of carrying more power than a .38. But if you are recoil sensitive, you can always shoot .38 or .38 +p out of it and still have the lightest gun possible.
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The Buffalo Bore 158gr .38 Special +P is moving a heavier bullet at faster speeds than the ".357 Magnum" SB load by Speer.

I can see the benefit of no carbon ring from the shorter .38's or the nice idea of "I'm carrying Magnums in my .357".
 
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.357 and skip the airweights. I love the 640. Not too heavy to carry all the time and minimizes recoil from the .357 ammo.
 
I would choose a 442 because it's black and scary in a tactical, assault weapon-lookin' way.:eek:

For a J Frame carry gun, 38s would be my choice. A heavy +p is all I want to shoot out of one....ever!

I mostly carry the standard pressure Critical Defense in mine.
 

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I have owned a 638, 442 Moon Clip, 360 M&P and a 60 in .38 Special.

I currently own a 340PD. I like the light weight of the gun, concealed hammer and red ramp front sight. This ended my J frame quest.

Cons (for me) on the previously owned models:

638 - the shrouded hammer was great for leisurely target practice, but found myself falling back to single action. Didn't like the non-colored front sight.

442 Moon Clip - same as above for the sights. Moon clips were great at the range, but hard to load in timed shoots. Liked the concealed hammer as it forced me to practice how I would shoot defensively.

360 M&P - recoil management with the exposed hammer was not good *for me*. Liked the tritium front sight. The 340 M&P would have perhaps been the keeper.

Model 60 no dash - great shooter. Shoulda kept it for fun.

All in all, your mileage WILL vary.
 
markfi said:
All my J frames are 38 Special. I carry 158 +p LHP. I can fire pretty fast follow up shots. I would not buy a J frame 357. If you want a small 357 buy a Ruger SP101 or a K frame 357.
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The SP101 is not much heavier than the 640, so they should recoil pretty much the same. I have a 640-1 and I used to have a SP101 snub years ago. I don't recall any real difference in the 2.

I choose to carry the airweight 642 moon clip because it's just so damn easy to carry at all times. Yeah, it snaps a little more than the heavier framed J's, but with a Buffalo Bore or similar low flash .38+p load it's manageable.


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Nalapombu said:
Hey all,

Sooner or later I am going to get a J Frame. Not only because I have wanted one for a while, but I am going to carry it when I get my Texas CCW.

I change my mind on which one I want about every time I handle a different one or see a nice pic of one. I don't know what would be better, a super lightweight Sandium 357, a medium weight 38 or a 23 ounce 357. I do take a liking to the "humpback" models like the 638 and 649.

I'd like to know which caliber you would pick if your were going to get your first J frame or you were buying one to carry.
If you can manage to decide on caliber (I cannot), how about going ahead and making a pick of model?

For those that chose the 357, what are the +'s that made you pick that way instead of the 38?

Can't wait to see how you all answer.

Of course, as always, PICS are happily welcomed.
Thanks for your time and help.

Nalajr
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I would get the 642 in 38 Special.
 
I've been carrying/shooting alloy frame Js for over 40 yrs. Right now my EDC is a Model 38 from the early '60's backed up by a no-lock 442 now and then. As to the question of .357 vs .38, I cannot control follow-up shots accurately w/a .357, and I know that the .38 +P works from past experience on the street.

There is one plus for the .357 and that is you can load the last round (or two) w/.357 if need be - it does give you options.

The good news is you have lost of choices. Pls. let us know what you decide to do.
 
S&W45Colt said:
Money being equal, a .357 for two reasons:

1. Speer Short Barrel .357 ammo is a great round and it's controllable.

2. .357 seems to bring a little more money when sold.
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Both very valid and great points. Now, can someone tell me where I can find the Speer Gold Dot short barrel ammo in .357 and .38 special? Damn it's hard to come by.
 
I would guess by your state of residence that you probably have a nearby range that will rent various guns, or you may have fellow shooters that would let you try theirs. Someone will have a .38 or .357 J frame to try, and you can decide what is controllable for you. For some it will be a steel J Magnum with .38 wadcutters, and apparently for others .357s in an AirLite is no big deal :). Only you can decide what works for you.
 
You may have to order Speer on line and pay a premium for it, to include shipping.
 
I've found the Speer SB ammo at Gander Mountain 3 out of the last 4 times I've been there. You have a hard time finding it online, but it's been available in store most times.

It "ain't cheap", but it's been available in my area.
 
My choice: 642-1 (no lock) loaded with Buffalo Bore load 20C (158 HP @ 850 fps, basically the FBI load at standard operating pressure). "Just enough," gets the job done.

My hands have been operated on four times, they cannot take the punishment of higher pressure loads. The plus of this load is rapid recovery for follow-up shots that, hopefully, I will never have to make.
 
I currently have a 340 Sc to which I have added a XS front sight, and a 640 .357 mag. I used to carry a 60 as an off-duty and back-up piece back in the 70s and 80s. Wish I still had one. I carry the Buffalo Bore 158 +p LSWCHP at 1000 fps. I'll occasionally carry the Gold Dot 135 gr. JHP SB in .357 mag, also. However, I find the Buffalo Bore to be a great round.

As I'm going to retire next summer, I'll likely be carrying my J-frames much more often. As a result, I'm planning on getting a 340 M&P. It's hard to beat a J-frame.
 
For an off-the-rack concealed-carry gun, it's tough to beat a 442 or 642. Plenty of them available and very reasonably priced. I recently I found a great deal on a (barely) used 442-2 so I bought it. It came with some "etc" but the bottom line is I ended up having only about $300 in the gun. I previously owned one which I paid about the same amount for, which I sold to a buddy. If I was you, I'd keep an eye out for something like this-- if it turns out you don't care for it you can sell it off without losing any money. In some ways, it makes more sense as an EDC piece than my vintage bobbed Chiefs.
Personally I'm not interested in shooting anything more than 38+P out of a 2" j-frame. I used to have a 4" M19 and wasn't too wild about shooting full-house 357's out of it-- recoil wasn't too bad but the muzzle blast was terrible.
 
WOW!!

What a WEALTH of great info to chew on. LOTS of info in here to help all kinds of people other than me. THANK YOU ALL for posting all this valuable info. It'll take me a while to digest it all though. ;)


I wish there were a range where a bunch of us could meet and try each others pistols. That would be awesome as I have never had a chance to shoot a J frame. My range has a couple for rent and am thinking of trying that.

I like the idea of being able to shoot 357 and 38 out of the same piece. Like others mentioned though, whenever I see clips of armed confrontations or read about them, there is almost always more than 1 shot fired. I think the 357 right off the bat would make it pretty difficult to follow up quickly if you missed, which would be highly likely on the first shot. Whatever one I did choose it would mandate a LOT of practice with it to make sure I was good enough to carry it.

The only thing that gives me pause on the J frames is that this summer I went to the NRA show in Houston and was amazed at some of the stuff I was able to handle. One of the most impressive handguns I have ever handled is that new Springfield XDs in 9mm and 45acp. If you have seen or held one you know what I am talking about. It is a mighty impressive candidate for a CCW piece. Hard to argue with the ease of reloading the 45ACP and 9mm in a semi against a 5 shot J.
But I find myself going back to the J for the simple reason that there is no such thing as a misfire or jam in a J. You just keep pulling the trigger till the bad guy stops or you're out. I believe in a situation like that you need to operate on muscle memory and NOT stuff you THINK you know or are gonna do or something a guy said to you in a class somewhere.

So many great pieces to choose from. I think I'm gonna go over to Gander Mountain and look over their collection of J frames. They have quite a bit in the cases to look at. Not going to buy yet, just look. I need to take my class first.


Lastly, I am also stunned at how expensive S&W revolvers have become. I have a 65-3 with a 3 inch that is a police trade in that is in excellent shape with factory wood grips. It's a great piece that I got for my DAD and paid $250 for about 8 years ago. Today they're going for $600!! CRAZY STUFF. Seems like all the S&W revolvers are commanding premiums these days.

Thanks again everyone.

Nalajr
 
I use a M640-1 Pro for OWB carry in a Lobo Pancake holster.
It is currently loaded with plus P Speer SB, but I want to try the same in Magnum. I have some of the bullets so I will load to light Magnum to compare. This is also my favorite range gun. I like small frame revolvers. I don't miss single action ability. I thought I might, but I don't. For slow shooting, I can stop at lockup, check aim and fire as well as I do with SA revolvers. I do this off of a rest to evaluate ammo. My range load is a 125 gr plated FP over 7.2 gr A#5 in a Magnum case. I plan to work up into low Magnum levels. One of the advantages of the Magnum versions is plenty of headroom to hand load at plus P plus levels, or where ever. The gun can take whatever my 70 year old hands can deal with. I tried a couple of 158 gr XTP's with a starting load of A#9, and won't likely go there again. I like the extra weight of the Magnum J frames for holster carry. I don't notice the difference and it shots with less recoil. But, I also have a M442 for pocket carry in a Mika holster, which I currently carry with Double Tap 148 gr hardcast WC's. These are about 100 FPS faster than the target WC's. I don't want HP ammo at standard pressure, since, if it expands, I don't expect to get the penetration that I want. I wouldn't give up penetration for expansion until I had at least 12 inches, and I don't expect that without at least plus P pressures. The Speer plus P barely makes 12 inches. I have found these to be too stout for the 14 oz revolver. Thus, the WC's.

Best,
Rick
 
Nalapombu said:
WOW!!

What a WEALTH of great info to chew on. LOTS of info in here to help all kinds of people other than me. THANK YOU ALL for posting all this valuable info. It'll take me a while to digest it all though. ;)


I wish there were a range where a bunch of us could meet and try each others pistols. That would be awesome as I have never had a chance to shoot a J frame. My range has a couple for rent and am thinking of trying that.

I like the idea of being able to shoot 357 and 38 out of the same piece. Like others mentioned though, whenever I see clips of armed confrontations or read about them, there is almost always more than 1 shot fired. I think the 357 right off the bat would make it pretty difficult to follow up quickly if you missed, which would be highly likely on the first shot. Whatever one I did choose it would mandate a LOT of practice with it to make sure I was good enough to carry it.

The only thing that gives me pause on the J frames is that this summer I went to the NRA show in Houston and was amazed at some of the stuff I was able to handle. One of the most impressive handguns I have ever handled is that new Springfield XDs in 9mm and 45acp. If you have seen or held one you know what I am talking about. It is a mighty impressive candidate for a CCW piece. Hard to argue with the ease of reloading the 45ACP and 9mm in a semi against a 5 shot J.
But I find myself going back to the J for the simple reason that there is no such thing as a misfire or jam in a J. You just keep pulling the trigger till the bad guy stops or you're out. I believe in a situation like that you need to operate on muscle memory and NOT stuff you THINK you know or are gonna do or something a guy said to you in a class somewhere.

So many great pieces to choose from. I think I'm gonna go over to Gander Mountain and look over their collection of J frames. They have quite a bit in the cases to look at. Not going to buy yet, just look. I need to take my class first.


Lastly, I am also stunned at how expensive S&W revolvers have become. I have a 65-3 with a 3 inch that is a police trade in that is in excellent shape with factory wood grips. It's a great piece that I got for my DAD and paid $250 for about 8 years ago. Today they're going for $600!! CRAZY STUFF. Seems like all the S&W revolvers are commanding premiums these days.

Thanks again everyone.

Nalajr
Click to expand...

The good news is if you get an xds and a j frame you will have something to carry while you wait on the xd to be returned due to recall.
 
I am going to add one more post and I want to ask that you follow up and understand what I am saying.
When you have a small revolver with a short barrel.In this case a 38/357
** The length of the barrel will determine your terminal velocity.
You can not get ANY MORE power out of a 357 bullet in a snub nose revolver than you can a 38 38+P. The differences in power begin when you go to longer barrels,4 /6 /8 inch is where a 357 shines. Put a 357 load in a Henry rifle and look at the statistics. Your jaw would drop.
Most of the power of the bullet is coming out the end of the barrel with a snub nose. With that bit of information,I would say get the 38+P and save the money for ammo or charity.
 
It is my opinion that everyone should have a model 36, preferably from the 1960's.

There is something just plain nifty about them.
They are the Ford Ranger of little revolvers (whereas a 29 is the F-150) :)
 
36general said:
I took that as he meant there is a lot of helpful info for himself as well as others. But who knows? I've been wrong once or twice before. :)
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Me too .. :D Guess I got my morning excerise jumping to conclusions,, sorry ,,
 
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mickeyblueyes said:
** The length of the barrel will determine your terminal velocity. You can not get ANY MORE power out of a 357 bullet in a snub nose revolver than you can a 38 38+P.
Click to expand...

Stephen A. Camps opinion on the subject seems to refute that.

New Page 1

Will a .357 load get the same velocity in a snub than in a longer barrel gun? No, but most .357 loads will generate more velocity than a standard .38 and +p loads even out of a snub. Is it enough difference in velocity to make it worth the extra recoil? Now that's the main question.
 
Personally, I put 5 full house .357 rounds through a Model 60 and the web between my thumb and finger hurt for 2 days.

Never again.

I bought a 3" M36 and am happy as can be.:cool:
 
I went through some of the same thought processes as the OP a few years ago, and settled on a 640. I find shooting 357mag in this gun almost intolerable; the recoil is such that getting off a second, accurate shot is beyond my ability. In fact, shooting regular .38's is somewhat unpleasant. I was at the range recently and after shooting wadcutter 38's, I switched to my Ruger P97 and fired 45acp's which felt like shooting a 22 compared to the revolver.

Also, the 640 is heavy for pocket carry. Whether it is TOO heavy is a personal assessment. I find I reach for my little Ruger LCP when pocket carrying, and limit the 640 to IWB. But in fairness, I only get to carry occasionally, when I am out of Illinois (at least until 2014 when I hope to get my IL license).

I have been thinking about trading in the 640 for a 442, or just buying a 442 or 438 but have not acted on this yet.
 
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