Zero Bullets - Jacketed .44 RM

[SLT223]

Does Zero offer a .429" dia .44 bullet that I'm just not seeing on websites? They list their .44's as .431", and I'm not excited to find out how that changes the operating pressure of my familiar loads.

 

[mikld]

Are you talking about lead, jacketed, or plated? A couple thoughts; to know for sure what is gonna be good in your gun you should slug the barrel and measure the cylinder throats (factory info are what the gun is supposed to be, often not real life). If your barrel is in fact .429", a .431" jacketed bullet will be fine, it won't raise pressures. I would also measure the bullets if I bought them just to make sure (sometimes a bigger bullet will slip through

 

[SLT223]

Are you talking about lead, jacketed, or plated? A couple thoughts; to know for sure what is gonna be good in your gun you should slug the barrel and measure the cylinder throats (factory info are what the gun is supposed to be, often not real life). If your barrel is in fact .429", a .431" jacketed bullet will be fine, it won't raise pressures. I would also measure the bullets if I bought them just to make sure (sometimes a bigger bullet will slip through

I don't think you really read the title or the post.....

 

[muddocktor]

SLT223, as far as I know they only sell .431 diameter jacketed bullets. I've been tempted to try them out in the past, but the diameter has deterred me from buying them. My 629-3 Classic's cylinder has smaller throats than that. They average .4295-.430 according to my pin gauges.

 

[Nemo288]

Zero .431" JFP really are .431"

If your barrel is in fact .429", a .431" jacketed bullet will be fine, it won't raise pressures.

I beg to differ.
Forcing a .431" jacketed bullet (and they are .431", I measured several) thru a chamber throat
that is much smaller than that will definitely raise pressure much more than doing so with a cast bullet.
Most revolver bullets are going to be at least partially still in the case when they hit that throat and if they stick there pressure soars.

I bought them to shoot in the older 44's that have throats as big as .433" and micro-groove rifle barrels like the 444.
I am NOT going to shoot them in any gun with chamber throats smaller than .431".
Sadly I only have a few 44's this applies to as they were made oversized for so many years:
629-2 .433"
All 3 624's .433-"
Redhawk .432+"
Bulldog .432"
696 .431"
396-1 .4295"
DW 7445 .429"
696-1 .4285+"
These were measured with .0005"- Meyer Z pin gages.
Individual English & Metric Gage Pins | Meyer Gage Company, Inc.

Here they are loaded in the 444 at velocities between 1700 and 2100 fps. using I-4227 and H-4198.
1750 is around what many 20" 44 magnum carbines will do.
I use these as plinkers and to practice working that lever gun with the peep sight.
I believe the shiny part at the front of the jacket is where the final swage was applied.
I would not hunt with this bullet at velocities over 1800 fps. as the terminal performance is unknown and suspect

 

[mikld]

Wow! Yes I did read the title and the post. I answered as I would answer a total new reloader (just read the question and you'll see the OP doesn't know much about bullet size). Many newer reloaders very often misname the components they have (how many posts have you seen that call plated bullets "jacketed"?). Has the OP measured the throats? Most .44 Magnum throats measure .430" and over so a jacketed bullet .001" (that's .0005" on the sides) larger will have no effects on pressure.

For the OP; well you have gotten typical forum responses to your question, one post and 2 tearing it down. I have reloaded the .44 Magnum, my favorite cartridge, since '87 and have used bullets from 123 gr. balls to 310 gr. T-Rex killers. I have 3 revolvers, one Contender and one rifle chambered for the .44 Magnum. Shooting various diameter, various construction, in all for over 30 years, never a Kaboom, never a ruined gun, never a squib...

So, I'll stand firm on my answer from the info I have and for the OP, good luck (you can be afraid/frozen with fear form supposed "theories" and old wive's tales of every "conceived" danger, or think and reload successfully an safely)...

 

[muddocktor]

mikld, I don't see where you find that the OP comes off as a new reloader by his first post. I've had the same thoughts about the Zero jacketed bullets myself and I have been reloading since the mid 60's.

And while I don't think that a cast or coated cast bullet would make much of a difference on pressure, I have reservations on a jacketed bullet with a diameter of .431 being safe to load at the same powder charge as say a .4295 jacketed bullets such as a Sierra 240 grain JHP. I'm not saying that it isn't safe to load the Zero but rather saying that to try them out I would drop charge weights down at first quite a bit and try them out over a chrono. Really, this should be done with any bullet change but isn't nearly as necessary with bullets of similar design and diameter. The Zero bullet design is similar but is bigger in diameter.

As for the Zero jacketed 44 bullets, I decided to stay away from them for now. The price for them is great for jacketed bullets in 44 caliber, but I've been shooting coated lead lately anyways as they are cheaper still.

SLT223, if you are hesitant about the .431 Zero bullets like I am, Midsouth has some 240 grain JHP factory second bullets for $20/100. That is a pretty good price for jacketed bullets.

 

[Dobie406]

I've used 1000 of the .431 Zeros from Roze with good results. I bought them because of their .431 size as my 24-3 has slightly large throats. I've also used them in a Ruger Blackhawk and a Rossi M720 with equally good results. I like that they have the widest meplat of any jacketed bullet I've seen

 

[Paul105]

Zero only offers the .431" .44s as far as I know. I've shot a bunch with no problems mostly in a couple of S&W M69s w/.4295" throats (I know that's not particularly definitive re pressure variances). Got concerned about .431 diameter based on some comments here on S&W forum.

Asked the question (.431 Jacketed cause pressure problems in .44 mag) on another website. Seems to be mixed feelings among very knowledgeable handgunners/reloaders about using the Zero .431 Jacket Flat Points in guns with smaller throats. Some say no problem, some say S&W revolvers are a bit “delicate” and it might be wiser to use smaller diameter bullets. With that in mind, I ran the .431 zeros thru a lee .429 push thru, cast bullet sizer die. Not much resistance and the bullets come out exactly .430 on my Mitutoyo digital micrometer. You can do a bunch of these in short order if this is the direction you want to take. Note that Hornady’s XTPs are .430 so the resized Zero’s should be good to go for anyone with concerns.

Both .431s and resized .430s shoot great in my M69s using loads of 23.5gr of H110 and 9.0gr H Universal.

I still have over 4,000 and will order more when they are gone.

Just my personal experience.

FWIW,

Paul

 

[noylj]

OP: Your "familiar loads" change as soon as you use a different bullet. For safety, you should go back to the start load. At the very least, you should reduce your "pet load" by 3-5% and work up. Bullets differ in bearing surface, ogive, meplat, and hardness.

SAAMI says that the INDUSTRY should use a 0.4260-0.4320" inch bullet.For the .44 Special, bullet specification is 0.4265-0.0.4325".
So, SAAMI sees nothing wrong with a 0.431" bullets.
In fact, since the RELOADER must ALWAYS start at the start load and work up, any increased pressure from the larger bullet is part of the load work-up procedure.
Now, I have never SEEN this increase pressure that must be there, but then I alway work up the load from start.
All I can say is that I have NEVER seen any problems with the 0.431" bullets and I assumed both Zero and SAAMI knew what they were doing.
I would ask why the question wasn't directed at Zero? OP should ask them and then post their response.

 

[mikld]

The basic question, or lack of basic knowledge about bullet sizes lead me to believe the OP was a new reloader. I do not know any seasoned reloaders that do not know about bullet diameters and how they pertain to bullet-to-gun fit, but I see a lot of these basic questions from new reloaders (nothing wrong with that, some need to ask). So, questioning .001"-.002" interference fit raising pressure I will stand on my original post, won't make no difference...

FWIW, I was working as a machinist when I pounded out my first .38 Special reload in 1969. Perhaps my metal working experience aided me in reloading safety, as I knew some metallurgy and how to measure to .0005", and just common sense. If one chooses to use scare tactics to get their "theories" across, well I will stand up and call BS, and doing that I cannot control the new reloader's outcome, but I have done my part to help a new reloader...

I'm done...

 

[SLT223]

Well, I didn't ask Roze or Zero because......... they were closed.
I figured someone here would know. That question got answered. No need for a dissertation on fitment. Not new to this at all, and know what I want, which is why I asked (and only asked) if these nice cheap Zero JSP's come in .429" Thanks all for sharing! Have a happy and safe 4th! This thread is a wrap.

 

[noylj]

Response from Zero:

Your response was perfect! Thank you for sending this over.
It may be a typo - we've not had any complaints with the size...I'm checking into it.

Thank you!

Alison Harbison
Zero Bullet Co., Inc.
1-800-545-9376
256-739-4683 (fax)

In a message dated 7/2/2017 1:07:57 P.M. Central Daylight Time, [email protected] writes:
The following was posted at the smith-wessonforum:
Zero Bullets - Jacketed .44 RM

“Does Zero offer a 0.429” diameter .44 bullet that I’m just not seeing on websites? They list their .44’s as .431”, and I’m not excited to find out how that changes the operating pressure of my familiar loads.”

Now, my response, and I know I will be yelled at, is that 0.431” is within SAAMI’s specification for .44 bullets and that any time you switch bullets you need to rework the load as company A’s bullet is NOT exactly the same as company B’s bullet, but I thought you might like to respond.