I would never use .22 ammo for self defense myself but this guy seems to suggest you can. Enjoy.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gbVY4gT5P20

Another interesting story of a home invasion stopped by a .22

Maine Man Uses .22 for Defense in Home Invasion - Guns & Ammo

Many, many people use .22 LR for self defense.............

Better than a sharp stick!

My wife shoots a Walther P22. She likes to shoot it and will go to the range with me. She doesn't like to shoot the 38s,9mm, and bigger guns. She has her CCW but doesn't like to carry. She keeps it near her at night and travels with it when she is alone. Because she can shoot it likes to shoot it, this is the best choice for her. She carries the stinger CCI rounds in it most of the time and Practices with the CCI Mini Mags. I let her know when I'm coming in late at night I don't just walk in on her. I sure as hell don't want to get shot by anything.

Shot placement trumps caliber or capacity every time.

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Freedom isn't free.

I AGREE WITH Rastoff. I READ A STORY ABOUT AN LEO, WHO WAS KILLED BY A SINGLE .22LR TO THE ARMPIT, WHICH TRAVELLED TO HIS HEART. THIS WAS AFTER HE SHOT HIS KILLER 5 TIMES IN THE CHEST WITH HIS .357 MAGNUM. HIS KILLER SURVIVED. SURPRESED RUGER SEMI-AUTOS IN .22LR WERE USED FOR WET WORK BY SOG UNITS IN VIETNAM. MOB HITS HAVE BEEN MADE USING .22 LR WEAPONS. STATS INDICATE THAT THE .22LR KILLS MORE PEOPLE THAN ANY OTHER CALIBER EACH YEAR. THIS IS MORE AN INDICATOR OF THE POPULARITY OF WEAPONS CHAMBERED IN THE .22LR CALIBER, RATHER THAN THE KILLING EFFICIENCY OF THE CARTRIDGE, IMHO……….………..

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'Nam 1968-69.DAV,VFW,NRA Inst.

Very true but the average citizens panic when involved in a gunfight and will not have a chance to aim at the proper spots to stop the threat. Bullets will be flying all over the place. A skilled person will definitely hit its target.

Well, that's the point, isn't it? It doesn't matter if you have a .22LR or a .50BMG if you can't hit the target.

The venerable .22LR might not be my first choice for self-defense, but a larger round is useless if you can't hit the target. So, good training and proper practice is essential. In all seriousness, we spend too much time debating the value of caliber or capacity when we should be spending our time on technique and tactics.

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Freedom isn't free.

Not my choice, but it's better than nothing.

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John

That relatively new introduction by Keltec in the .22Magnum sure is an interesting piece. Controllable firepower. The magazines were developed with a fully automatic variant of the pistol. They work. Now imagine somebody delivering thirty hits to a person in a frantic hurry. Hard to say someone would be able to survive it and still accomplish too much ill. All that being said I would not go elephant hunting with an AK just for controllable capacity. Power has its place.

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This≠DodgeCity&You≠BillHickok

Many people have been killed with the 22 LR, especially when fired
from rifles. Probably because so many people own them even if they
don't own any handgun and cheap semi autos are the norm these days making accurate multiple hits easy. But I still think the 22 LR is a poor
choice for SD carry in a handgun.

The issue with a 22 for defense is not the caliber, as, placement trumps caliber. The issue is how the rimfire cartridge is manufactured with the priming compound being placed around the rim. I have pulled the bullet from many dud 22's picked up at my club to use the bullet for casting, and while I have never encountered a case with no powder, I have encountered cases with little to no priming compound, or the compound has separated from the rim and mixed in with the powder, leaving none for ignition. I want a primer in my defense caliber.

Excellent point about rimfire reliability. If physical issues limited me to .22 for self defense, I would choose a revolver to more quickly get to the next round in the event of failure to fire. Rather than the SR22, my choice would be the LCR 22.

My wife carries a LCR in 22 (stingers).

Once upon a time, in a far away place I work plainclothes in a "Special Unit" and was advised to not have anything that looked "Cop". NOW if you can imagine Jimmy with long hair, facial hair, wearing old "Hippie Style" clothing and carrying a Ruger standard model 4" semi pistol loaded with high speed solid lead bullets ***. I felt the .22 LR would be
adequate. .

My wife had a walther p22. One day while we were out back shooting, she had a few failures to feed and multiple failures to fire. The failures to fire happened with three different types of ammo.

After that, she said "ok, I see what you mean." and not long after we traded it in. I had told her a few times I didn't trust .22 lr's reliability for defense, she saw it first hand.

Honestly, if I trusted it would fire every time, it would be a different story for me. It sure wouldn't be my top choice, or second, or third....

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- The Federalist #46 -

No one faced with a handgun is going to be studying the bore diameter in order to determine their chances of survival.All will be considered deadly.

I have never heard of anyone yelling "get them it's only a 22"

The 60 gr Super Sniper round is probably best for the 22lr in a defense situation. Gives good penetration even from very short barrels. It was designed to penetrate a human skull at 200 meters from a rifle. I read a story about a guy who does deer control for cities. He uses a suppressed 10/22. He said he couldnt use the 60 gr load in the city as it will completely penetrate an adult deer skull at 70 yards.

You may find this load will tumble a bullet because it needs a faster twist. 1 in 9 is about right and barrels for the 10/22 are available. In handguns at closer ranges this in not a problem. In a gel test, this load did 750 fps from a Beretta mini pistol and penetrated 10 inches.

This load function fine in my S&W 22S and my Ruger Standard Auto.

If you must use one, think of the 22lr as a remote controlled ice pick.

The great benefit of the 22 is the great skill that folks can acquire with this very pleasant cartridge. It encourages practice, doesn't intimidate new shooters and ammo is still relatively inexpensive, facilitating lots of practice.

A 22 in the eye is very effective, and the 22 lends itself to good shooting.

Not only is the 22 better than nothing, it's better than many higher power cartridges in the hands of a large proportion of shooters.

My wife's night stand gun is a 617. Trying to work her up to the 627 w/.38special, but no luck yet.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qzq-wfFTrbY

If one has physical limitations that mandate a .22, it's a great choice. I would work very hard to find a top of the line .22 ammo that has great QC due to the primer issues, but there are limits to what you can control.

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NHI, 10-8.

Works against snakes just fine...



Zero misfires in a whole brick of CCI Blazers. And I'm pretty sure that if I'm shooting a BG with my 43C, the BG is either dying or running away. I'm okay with either of those options.

No, it's not my EDC. But it is probably adequate in reality.

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-Roger

Not my first choice, but I'd trust my SR22 with my life if it was my only option.

Here is a 2x4 shot at self-defense distances with cheapy Remington ammo:





I understand that wood is different than flesh and bone, but based on the damage it'll do to a 2x4, I'd trust a .22 to do enough damage to save my hide if it had to.
Especially considering that where I live, I'm more likely to be attacked by a small 4-legged critter than a large 2-legged one.

As others have said, the single greatest red flag to the .22 RF as an SD round is the relatively large number of failure-to-fires, they suffer. The priming I believe, is spun into the case rim and many .22 RF duds will indeed fire if you rotate them a bit to bring up a fresh piece of rim under the firing pin. That's because there was a piece of rim without priming.

Every time I go to my outdoor club/police range, I pick up a dozen or more dud 22s, most of which fire on the second strike.
With a revolver, you merely need to pull the trigger a second time if you train yourself to do so. A semi auto requires a stoppage drill, even with second strike capability as you can hammer that cartridge all day and nothing will happen.

This is the first I've heard of reliability issues with .22LR rounds. Without exaggeration I'll bet I've shot over 100,000 rounds of .22LR. I'm sure I've had a failure in all that shooting, but not enough where it stood out. I honestly can't remember the last time I had a .22LR fail to fire.

In the last 2 years though, I've shot less than 500 rounds of .22 so, it could just be my faulty memory.

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Freedom isn't free.

O.K... here goes. Is the .22 LR reliable for SD. I think so. From about August 1979 up through April 1982 I carried a Ruger Mk. II standard type .22 LR pistol in the pocket of my work pants. I walked night security in a shipyard as well as a few other locals in New Orleans, LA. I have got no earthly idea how many rounds I put through that little pistol. Even on my limited budget (newly married student in seminary) I could afford enough .22 LR ammunition to shoot a lot. I got to where I could hit stuff fast w/ that little pistol. I can not remember that it ever failed to do anything but go bang when I pulled the trigger. It may be that I just bought super high quality ammunition. Maybe the humidity and high heat made the ammunition particularly responsive when struck by the firing pin. I don't know. I do know that that little pistol stayed in my right hand pants pocket every night, week after week. When I pulled the trigger, it always went bang. I don't know that I ever cleaned it more than a few times other than wiping the exterior off w/ a oily rag.

Over the last few years I've been known to slip my little 18-3 into my pocket, loaded w/ Mini-Mags. That little revolver has fired a wheel barrow load of ammo since the summer of 2000 when I bought it. It has not ever had a misfire of any sort. I shot a lot of CCI Blazer, Mini-Mags, etc. in it. I do clean it regularly. It is as tough as a tank. It has never missed a lick.

I do not doubt that there are problems encountered w/ rimfire ammunition. Doubtless there are some firearms and some brands of ammunition that are problematic, others are more reliable. Fired in the guns I own and use... Ruger Mk. II target competition model, S&W 18-3, S&W 15-22, Ruger 77/22, Ruger 10-22, Winchester 190... I have not found any problems w/ current .22 LR ammunition.

Currently I have a couple of nice revolvers in .38/.357, .44 Special, .45 ACP, any one of which would work very well for SD/HD. At night a 21-4TR is on the nightstand, loaded w/ some old (ca. 1971) Winchester 246 gr. LRN ammunition. Based on experience w/ ammunition from that batch, I am confident that if needed the ammo would light up and run just fine. I have .22 LR ammunition from a little later (ca. 1977-1980) that has proven equally perfectly reliable when fired in the 18-3 and Mk. II. It would be a sad thing if any of these pistols had to be used in a SD incident. But, if necessary I think any one of the three would be more than equal to the situation. JMHO. Sincerely. brucev.

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<><

I think it is all in the application and, of course, training.

Years ago we were at Shootin' Iron Academy in Oklahoma, Paul Abel presiding. He was just finishing up with a lady as we arrived.

She was in her fifties and in a wheelchair. As Paul later explained, she had been assaulted as she went out the door of her urban apartment, in her wheelchair.

As we watched, Paul stepped aside. There was a silhouette target about 10 feet away. When Paul said "GO" she slid a hand through a fold in her skirt, snapping a [small .22 revolver see below] into a line between her eyes and the head of the silhouette. In the blink of an eye she put all rounds into the head.
Edit: A comrade who also observed this chastised me for my faulty memory. The lady drew a Beretta 22, something like a Bobcat with a tip-up barrel.
Seems to me that would be effective.

I believe you are referring to the SC state trooper. He was shot with a NA mini .22 short. I watched the video of the shooting and an interview with the shooter. He bled to death before his back up arrived, the back up officer was a friend of mine.

There were true stories of African game keepers putting down bull elephants with an old 6.5 mm rifle, by shooting them correctly in the eye or another soft spot int he massive skull to deliver a fatal hit. Than again, if you took that into the bush chasing after a wounded bull elephant, guides and experienced hunters would call you a damned fool for putting your life into the hands of a less than adequate firearm, arrogant for putting your life into the hands of your marksmanship. When dire situations arise, there is little time to aim, and firepower being a very real advantage for stressful, less than perfect situations, your choice of firearm or load can be the difference between life and death.

There is a very large difference between shooting an unsuspecting police officer, ambush style, under the arm with a pistol, and pulling a gun to defend yourself from another person who is the aggressor and calling the situation and much of the circumstances. Large difference between murdering a human being not seeing it coming, and being on the defensive, with perhaps someone on top of you, and very little time to aim, and with angles that are less than perfect. The choice of firearm, round, and load can be the difference between life and death.

At best, .22 LR is a very poor, if not desperate or arrogant choice of defensive caliber. Its deficiencies are many, its performance poor, and its only advantage is being cheap, and easy for disabled people to shoot. If you can afford better, and aren't a 90 pound grandmother, or with a very serious disability, there is no real excuse for carrying something more adequate when the stakes, life, are so high.

Enough talk of shot placement. 22LR does not make anyone inherently accurate, and .454 isn't inherently impossible to aim. Shot placement is not magically guaranteed with a smaller caliber, and not magically impossible with a larger one. There are those that can shoot better with a .44 magnum than some can with an air pistol. Expecting perfect shot placement in close range self defense is either wishful thinking, or arrogance on part of the shootist. Picking squirrels out of a tree at 50 yards is one thing, shooting a 350 pound heroin addict who is 2 feet away from you and attacking you, and stopping him when determined, are worlds apart. You can shoot a paper target "between the eyes", but if you can't pull it off on a real man who is really trying to kill you, perhaps the choice of caliber will matter for where your bullet really does hit.

Once again, we see a cult of people who will never forget a single incident where their caliber worked, but will discard and forget every time it failed. You should pick the caliber for the job, and not justify or rationalize your choice of caliber for everything simply because you like it.

This ^^^^

I have experienced far more FTFs, duds, etc. with .22 lr than any other calibers combined. I have no problem with the .22 lr for SD purposes IF it could be trusted as much as my .38s, .357s, .44s, or .45s.

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I'm with the banned ...

Okay...there's no doubt a .22 rimfire will kill somebody. So will a 20-penny nail if driven into a guy's eyeball and into his brain. But, in either case, do you really want to risk the aftermath if you aren't completely successful?

That being said, you probably won't find me trading in my .45 in order to pack a .22 for self-defense.

It boils down to practicality and sensibility. I can probably kill a guy by strangling him with a bootlace...but it sure ain't practical or sensible. I can also probably kill a guy with a .22, but that, too, isn't real practical, if you think about it, when you can stop an aggressive attack with a 240-grain bullet traveling over 900 fps.

Just my view from the saddle.

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Pack light and cinch tight.

There's frequently a variety of wise apples at the local gun stores who say something like "shooting a bad guy with a 22 will only make him mad".

I always offer to shoot them with mine so they can prove their point.

Not one taker yet. Not a single one.

22 LR is better than nothing. But, I still would rather have a centerfire cartridge. I don't like "clicks" when I should hear "bang." Premium rimfire ammunition does help though.

this is absolutely correct....22 is a POOR self defense round as compared to 38,357,etc.

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SWCA#2208
KK4EMO

I have heard about every argument about every caliber over the decades. Shot placement is always a talking point. I was a poor student in school but I am certain that the eye is a no vital shot. If the eye is lined up , it is an easy path to the brain but only IF it lines up. I have visited with many professional African guides and not a single one told clients to shoot for the eye. And no self defense instructor I ever encountered ever said aim at the eye. In my decades of guiding and hunting I had a number of animals shot in the eye with high power rifles that were not fatal. Let the caliber debate continue, but the eye is not an ideal target.

2 years ago when i got my first handgun (old colt .22); if i would have needed it for home defense i would have used it as that was all I had. I added my 9c earlier this year and that is what i work on for any potential defense now.
I'm more accurate with the .22 at distances beyond normal defensive range, but as others have stated the occasional ftf it can have is enough to stay in the back of my mind. And that is enough of a concern not to rely on one.

I do agree that if someone was looking at a barrel (or perhaps heard a slide in motion) that in itself may be enough of a deterrent.

From the video, I did not get the impression the gentleman / video was suggesting to use a .22 for self defense. I have seen several of this gentleman videos on different types of ammo. I find them to be very informative with very consistent testing methods.

I did find the video very interesting. IF for some unknown reason I was carrying a .22 for self defense, I would have probably had CCI Stingers in it. After the video I would probably consider CCI mini-mags , or CCI Velocitor.

A .22 isn't my first choice for self defense,, but it's better than a police whistle ,, or having 911 on speed dial..

The .22 LR has always been very much under estimated!
A high velocity .22 cal round can do serious internal damage to a human body. Unless the heart or brain is hit, it may not be an instant stopper but it will still kill you in a very short time!

I actually considered using a 22lr for self defense after finding that FOR ME, accuracy is much better with either of my 22lr handguns (a Browning Buckmark with 6-inch barrel and a 617 with a 4-inch barrel) than with what I was carrying for self defense at the time (a 642) at more than about 4 yards distance. But my assessment of likely uses of a gun for self defense is that I am most likely to be shooting at even closer than 4 yards, and at that close range I am reasonably proficient with the 642. But then I bought a Ruger LC9s, and maybe it is the sights or maybe the excellent trigger but I can shoot this gun almost as well as the longer barreled 22's and far better than the 642 (or my 640 which has real sights). Plus this small semi carries 8 instead of 5, and is easier to conceal than a j-frame. So for now I would not consider using a 22 for SD, although there is no doubt that it is better than no gun at all. And if I ever needed a SURVIVAL gun that would serve multiple purposes including hunting small game, the hands down winner would be my 617.

And not to hijack a thread, is there any consensus on the best 22lr ammo for self defense?

Both will equally scare the person that has one pointed at them.
A person hit by a .22 round or two,will be thinking about exiting pretty quickly,if he can,and worrying about his own survival needs.
Those who consider a .22 hit as only a little more than a pellet hit,underestimate the round,especially since at least four more could be sent on their merry way.

Will a few .22's solve a serious social problem? It may or may not. As with all such things, there are so many variables that predicting the outcome is pretty difficult. I chose not to bet my survival on tiny guns and little bullets since I have other choices. If one has been in a shooting situation, one knows that the opportunity and ability to calmly place those little bullets in exactly the right places is rare. Point blank gunfights have resulted in both parties winding up with empty guns and no holes in either person...Besides, with present circumstances where are you going to get all these .22's to unleash in a swarm at that cooperative attacker?...Dang, I can get most any type of ammo other than .22's!

I don't have any experience using a .22 in a defensive situation, BUT, my son and I shoot in several .22 Bulls Eye leagues.

We fire about 6,000 rounds between the three leagues and practice very year. I use a S&W 41, he uses a Ruger MkIII Target.

Our experience is that we do get a failure rate of about 1 to 1.5 % w/ CCI Standard or equivalent ammo. My pistol is very ammo sensitive, I stick to the CCI exclusively, he can use a few others w/ his, lately Aguilar + Target or Federal. We still see the occasional FTF.

The most annoying thing we deal with is newbies that show up to shoot with ammo they haven't tested in their pistol, we have someone jamming on almost every relay some nights. Usually FTFs, some FTE's.

If the only firearm I had was a .22, then I would use it for defense, otherwise, CF.

USAF325 and mc5aw:
I have a Walther p22 I got in 2002. I had a lot of FTfeed and FTeject as well. I tried a number of different brands of ammo and found ones that worked every time, starting with CCI Stingers.
I also found it worked reliably with plated bullets rather than plain or lubed lead.

After that I was happy enough with it to buy the longer barrel. THAT caused some problems of its own, namely that it worked loose. I'm sure I could use ickumpucky to hold the screws, but I want to be able to switch back and forth. Sooo, I just recheck between every few magazines or so. I wouldn't consider the longer barrel for self-defense.

In my opinion, the Walther would be serviceability after you find a reliable ammo.
I also found it was sensitive to being clean. The lead bullets, even lubed, clogged it up pretty fast.

This discussion or, dare I say argument, has been ongoing forever. There are others just like it. For instance - .45 or 9mm? .22 LR or centerfire? .308 or .30-06?

There was a mantra going around some time ago that said friends don't let friends shoot mouseguns.....anyone recall that? Well, maybe so, but my theory has always been that any gun is better than no gun - and believe me, I carried a Beretta 950 BS in .25 ACP for around 20 years and I didn't spend any time worrying about the caliber. It was EASILY concealed - and that's what mattered until the law changed and I could obtain a CHL, at which point I switched to a 642.

I carried that Beretta in pants pockets routinely and I even had all of my suit coats modified - I had the left interior breast pocket removed and replaced with denim so the gun wouldn't wear through it - I carried that way more than in my pants pocket back when I was "dressed" routinely for work.

So, okay, it wasn't a .22, but my point is that it was a gun if I needed a gun for self defense. Except in movies you're probably never going to hear an attacker say "who do you think you're going to hurt with that?" - if you get attacked and pull a pistol out your attacker sees "GUN!!" and if you fire it, even if you miss, an attacker will be suitably impressed.

Downside? Sure. Even if you hit, if your attacker is 6'4", 300 pounds, drugged up, etc., he might not stop his attack from a single hit with a .22. Then, again, he might not stop from a single hit with my .38 Special, either, or even a .45 in a not so lethal place. But one can argue that the .22 is not a stopper - fine. I concede. But it IS a fight stopper if it's appearance dissuades an attacker from pursuing the attack. So, the argument goes back and forth.

I have several .22s, revolvers and pistols. None of them drops into my pants pocket like my .642. Ipso facto, that's my choice. But if I was inclined to carry one of my .22s instead of a .38 the concept would hardly bother me.

If I KNOW I'm headed to a gunfight and cannot bring a long arm I'm bringing a high capacity handgun in 9mm or .45 ACP. But since I never KNOW that, I don't plan for that; a J-frame works just fine. So would a super-concealable .22 if I had one.

One additional thought - it is at least a well established urban legend that mob hits are routinely done with .22s. Especially suppressed. Why? because they work. It is equally well established - and this is more fact than fiction - that the Mossad used Beretta Model 70 .22s for assassinations. You can hammer out a lot of rounds from a low recoiling .22 - that can make a big difference, especially if your marksmanship is good! Multiple shot placement is quite effective, even on the proverbial large, drugged out mugger.

So, while I do not carry a .22, I never gainsay a .22 - and I do keep a loaded .22 Magnum derringer around in the house - because it's handy and will accomplish what I need in first strike capability in the event of an attack at home.

***GRJ***

Again Yoda, there is a complete world of difference between a mobster putting a pistol point blank the side of a man's skull and pulling the trigger, especially considering the mob also used close friends and treachery to kill its own, and defending yourself from an aggressor. Mobsters didn't greet you with a pistol draw from high noon; they met you with a handshake, and killed you when you thought you were out to see your friend for coffee. They didn't choose it because it worked, they chose it because it was cheap and disposable.

Mossad, too, did not use silenced 22's in duels, or fights of any kind whatsoever. Again, it was cold blooded killing of someone who was not defending themselves, sometimes shooting people who did not even see it coming. They did not choose it for terminal ballistics, but rather, again, for disposability, size, and report.

I've shot steers in the head with a .22 rifle. I've snapped the necks of ducks in half with my old .22 rifle back years ago, with old iron sights at some considerable yardage. I've done my fair share with the old cartridge. Its because I've killed a lot with it, I don't trust it. The .22 is only effective in perfect, ambush style situations, where a man has the chance to call his shots perfectly. Its not that the .22 requires good shot placement, in order for it to work, it requires perfect shot placement for quick and effective kills. Steers shot in the head at the wrong angle will only wound them. Larger small game will continue to move wounded, if the shooter is careless enough not to place his shots correctly. Cheap and effective, but also requiring circumstances and shots that are far from the world of combat, at least on a level of consistency that is considered adequate.

I've seen people miss animals at 4 yards distance with a shotgun because they were not used to shooting that close, aimed with the sight, and shot under the animal. I've seen a man who could outshoot me in rifle on the range fail when a racoon at close range ran at him in a bid to escape, and he panicked. Nerve, pressure, time, range, all make a huge difference. I'm a better quick, in the field shooter than many that can outshoot me on a fair day at the range. I've seen people miss shots that they couldn't believe they could miss. Because of these things, I've considered the point of perfect shot placement, in close range, with limited time, and with stresses, to be a dangerous bet. If I can get a good pistolere to jerk a shot because of a 40 lbs. varmint on the farm, what might he do against a large human being assaulting him in a dark city street or parking lot?

You will hear from law enforcement and veterans about trained men breaking under stress. I've seen full grown men who are afraid to stomp on a rat. Even good shooters miss from time to time, as much as we don't like to talk about it. In a less than perfect world, with less than perfect people, and less than perfect shots, I simply won't endorse a caliber I know very well, and requires such close tolerances for shot placement to be effective.

I love my old .22's, both my High Standard pistol and old rifles, all of which I've done very well with. But with time, and the .22 shortage we all suffer, I've relegated all of them to target practice, and switched to pistol carbines for small game hunting for ethical reasons, and full size handguns for self defense for effectiveness. I love and respect the cartridge enough to know its limits.

Personally I like the simple challenge...if the .22 is so ineffective, stand there and let me shoot you. No sane person will do allow that.

The arguments about stress are irrelevant. The affect of stress on aim is the same regardless of caliber.

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Freedom isn't free.

I wouldn't let you hit me with a spitball, either. That doesn't increase my respect for spitballs for self defense.

Good point, but the reason behind the allow/disallow is different, don't you think?

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Freedom isn't free.