Being a veteran, I respect all military personnel in all branches of the US Military. That said, I'm wondering what happened to military discipline. Where are the sharp dressed troops we used to see in the dress uniforms? Is camo the only issued uniform now? What happened to the "sir" and "Ma'am"? Where is the sharp salute we used to see? I remember when troops were interviewed, the up-right, chin up stance was common, where is it now? Why do we see so many covers worn in the house or no cover outside? I guess I could go on and on but I think the point is made. It just ain't like it used to be. Please don't scold me for not respecting our military, I have as much respect for these fine folks as anybody, just wondering if anyone else has noticed this change. Of course it's been a long time since I was there, '67-'71, maybe I'm just too old to understand.

The two of us were probably in AF during similar times. You could not even wear fatigues off base back then. That being said, I'm going to conclude that the rules are different during 'time of war'.

No offense taken, and this Chief agrees 100% with your observations.
The proliferance of the camo uniforms is amazing. Right this minute there are more than 15 different patterns of camoflague available/required for US troops. I personally have to maintain six different TYPES of camo. You will not see me, or any members of my unit, sloppy, lazy, or disrespectful. You will see some folks who maintain razor sharp uniforms and personal appearance, and some who look like total dirtbags. Blame not the military for this, but American society in general. I have been doing this for 16 years, and I can tell you that garbage in equals garbage out. We get some kids who get straightened out here, but mostly, the quality of the person is what determines the quality of the Sailor/Soldier/Marine/Airman. The mothers and fathers of this country determine the level of excellence of this modern military. I have the finger pointed firmly at myself for my son's behavior and performance. Should he turn out poorly, it's my problem. The US Military won't be able to fix ALL of my mistakes.

Society is changing. I see kids walking to high school dressed worse then I did going to work on the farm (in the early 60's). If I had gone to HS dressed like this I would have been sent home.

When I was in 72-76, you couldn't wear dungaree's off base, in fact I got my Chief in trouble because she was wearing dungarees to work because of a dirty project she had to do, I thought that was cra* you can change at work, you have to look sharp.

Now even the Navy is Camo, give me the old chambray's.

I will bet you are not even allowed to "tack" on someone's Crow anymore!

Well, you aren't "allowed" to do a lot of things. Some communities respond differently to these rules, of course.
You never could wear dungarees off base, or the utility uniform that followed it. However, the smurf suit we wear now is allowed off base, as is the multicam. I see these guys flying on commercial airplanes in their camo and I think, "he has a SHOOT ME FIRST sign on him".

Over the last 10 years, recruiting standards for all branches of the military were lowered to allow the recruiting goals to be met for increasing the end strength of the services. During this time, there were lots of young men and women who would not quailfy now or in the 90s to get in. Now that we are trimming the fat, a lot of these "lucky" ones who slipped through the cracks will be getting thier walking papers when their enlistment is up and they don't qualify to reenlist due to poor performance.

The Marines only have 2 camo patterns, desert and green, and they are not allowed to be worn off base anywhere these days other than in your car to and from work. We prefer to keep a low profile, as opposed to wearing them everywhere, to include on commercial airlines, which still baffles me.

Bill

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US Marine, 16 years+

I'll have to disagree to some extend with the bash on "today's generation". I began my career in 1974 while we still had a few carry overs from the draft era. Drug use was so rampant that those who self identified were given a change at rehab and a career change (you couldn't remain in Security Police with drug history). Those caught with personal use amount were disciplined and retrained.

Fast forward a few years and the overall quality of people went up, drug use rates dropped and consequences increased (users discharged). In units with high but achievable expectations and discipline, good things happened.

If the "new breed" are failing it's because supervisors who are supposed to lead and grow their young military members are failing them. They are not instilling in them pride in unit, team and self. If we now have leaders who do not possess those qualities, who failed to develop them or choses to keep them in those positions? Their leaders, that's who. Most of our young members in the military can be expected to perform to the level that is expected of them. Some will exceed the standard because that's their nature but most people, in or out of the military, will only perform to the level that is demanded of them.

Squidsix By your words you are a prime example of good leadership. You have high expectations of your people and enforce it.

This pretty much it. Society as a whole has changed. Manners and any sense of formality, class and dignity has greatly diminished. Its all about being "comfortable" and relaxed. Personally, I've never found a suit and tie, or class A uniform to be uncomfortable. It seems to cause people physical pain to have to clean up a little. A tie is certianly asking too much...

Several months ago I began the testing process for a new department. I was the only applicant to wear a suit to the initial written test. A few had polos and slacks on, but the majority were wearing what appear to be their cleaniest dirty clothes.

It only happens because it's allowed to happen.

When I go to my Dad's WWII military reunions, (for 10 years or so now) the current and past Commanding General of the division are frequently asked to give a talk.

They most often wear camo to these pretty formal events.

I've become friendly with several of the Generals (have entertained them at my house) and frequently tell them I'll never get used to them wearing pajamas to events like that.

It just doesn't seem right to me.

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ASA/NSA 67-71
NRA Benefactor

I would like to thank all of you Men for your service. I have never been in service do to my own lack of, lets just say I was was a dumb*** back in the day. My Grandfather was in Korea, we lost my Uncle in '71 in the army, my Cousin was in the AF in Desert Storm, and my Brother recently came home from the AF. I could not be anymore proud of my family.

I do see what you are saying, seems to be a lack of discipline. I have also noticed though people I work with and hang around with. I see a lot more whiners and crybabies, I don't say that to offend anyone. It's just that to me the the "older gen" is just happy to be home, happy to go to a "regular" job where bullets aren't flying over head. I don't see that today in SOME of our service Men and Women.

My Grandfather was a POW for 33 weeks in Korea, I know it messed him up. He nor any other of my family has felt like this country owed them something, like SOME of the "new gen" does.

I don't mean to offend anyone here. I feel the Men and Women of our Military deserve our respect and gratitude. I know freedom isn't free. Once again Thank You for your service and I mean everyone on this forum Military, LEOs, and FD.

Right.

There was a time were the Military needed people. Unfortunately too much people with too much of an "dark spot" in their lifes were allowed to join...

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Jorge

When I was in the Army we wore starched green fatigues that were bloused above a pair of shiny black leather boots. Our belt buckle was polished and we often wore a scarf of the proper color around the neck with it tucked into the shirt. Even then we didn't dress like that to go off post.

That said, our military today may not look all that sharp but they sure do a fine job. I'm proud of them. By the way, I have three grandkids in the military, Army, Coast Guard and Marines.

I don't want to come off as disagreeing with the OP and other posters here. I don't. I miss seeing the old spit an polish of military personnel in dress uniforms when they are off base, but I can tell you that under those BDU's and Fatigues or whatever they call them today, are some of the finest young men and women you will ever meet.

The old saying that clothes don't make the man or in this case woman, has never been more true than it is with our service men and women today.

They are spectacular.

Right. It is up to the NCO Corps to enforce standards. The troops will respond to strong positive leadership.

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CSM, U S Army(Ret) 1963-1990

It's also up to the leaders to look and act like leaders. When the senior ranking officer on the base is always wearing a flight suit to work, even when he isn't flying, or even scheduled to fly, the troops get the impression that dressing casual is the norm.
If it sounds like I'm whining about the arrogant flyers in the Air Force, I'm not, I was one of them. I actively crewed an aircraft for 19 of my 28 years in the Air Force, and learned from a tough SAC Colonel who NEVER showed up in the office in a flight suit; he always wore some combination of the blue uniform. When he was going to fly, he went to the locker room and changed into his flight suit. After flying, he changed back into blues.
In my last assignment before I retired, I wore starched BDUs with spit-shined boots; todays Airmen's Battle Uniform is not allowed to be starched and the boots are a green, suede-like material that can't be shined.
While I admit that today's military members are some of the smartest people I have ever met, the leaders, at many levels, have let the appearance standards drop. You only get one time to make a good first impression.

In time of need a body is a body and you shape it the best you can to meet your minimum requirements. Quotas come and go and with them the quality of the individual who meets the current standard in force. As a peacetime voluntary draftee I certainly saw the many behavioral differences between those with US and RA serial numbers and you Vietnam era guys much more so.

A lot of the Navy's changes started in the late 1960's, and early 1970's. As late as 1969, E-4's, and below, had to carry liberty cards, to prove one actually had the liberty. You never stopped on the way to and from the base/ship, unless you had on the uniform of the day (service dress blues/whites). No beards, and you had to have CO permission to grow a mustache, and you also had to be E-4/E-5, and above.

When Elmo Zumwalt became Chief of Naval Operations, he vowed to get rid of the "Mickey Mouse Regs" that didn't contribute to combat readiness. Away went the liberty cards; beards, mustaches, and longer sideburns were allowed; civilian clothes on board ship for all personnel; stops on the way to and from the base/ship in dungarees, or utilities; no proof of auto insurance, only attestation; and laxity in enforcing drug possession.

Granted, some of these issues weren't combat-aimed, but it also created laxity in some of the other areas which shouldn't have been eased.

My brother ran a Navy recruiting office in the mid-1980-s, and things had really changed back. They were turning down people who had speeding citations, and after the initial counseling for drug possessions, if one broke the regulations, out they went.

I remember going to AO 'A' school in Memphis and E-1 thru E-3 needed a 'special privledges' card to wear civvies on or off base. You wore your dungaree working uniform during school/work or 'undress' blues/whites , whichever was appropriate. And your uniform , shoes , haircut had better be 4-0 squared away.

Years later , (stateside) we were not supposed to wear working uniforms or flight suits in public or off base , except going home and maybe a convenience store stop & shop.

And especially when overseas. We got warnings about being kidnapped or shot in Sicily if we wore our flightsuits off base.

As a father of three young sons, I much prefer this method of personnel acquisition to its alternative.

Today's current Military dress appearance I don't care for nor the current uniform apperance of LEO.
As an "Old Timer" I was informed that these uniforms were for comfort.
I was comfortble wearing the "Old Fashion" Military Uniforms and the "Old Fashion" LEO Uniforms.
What ever became of "Look Sharp, Be Sharp, Be Identified as Sharp/Profession"??

Am I the only one who remembers the 1973-1976 era when kids who had been caught with a joint were offered the choice by the judge to "Either enlist or I'll send yer arse to jail for 3-5 years!"

Then they were sent to S.E. Asia where the stuff grew wild
Two of my pot smoking buddies came back full blown smack addicts ....

It is a much better system now than it was 35 years ago regardless of the clothing.

Back in '06-'07 I did a job in Columbus, Ga. The gun shop/indoor range I went to was often full of young men from Ft. Benning. They seemed to have a lot of tattoo art and some had an earring.
After awhile we started to see each other regularly. We shot together and talked guns and life. I was pleased to discover these boys were all respectful and passionate about what they were doing. I would have been proud if any one of them had been my son. I hope they all got home.
Mike

I joined the Army in 1967, you were authorized to wear fatigues off post only when on duty or going to and from your quarters, otherwise it was either the Class As of Khakis, depending on the season and local uniform regs or civvies when authorized. Going on leave it was Class As or Khakis only. I note the BDUs and now the ACUs with roughside out leather boots convey a "macho" image-and it's easier to hide a gut or a sloppy figure with them. I live not far from the HQ of the New Jersey National Guard, I derive a certain wry satisfaction from seeing people who hold desk jobs trying to be "macho"-reminds me of the old trick of removing the band from the saucer cap to achieve the "50 mission crush" look. I dislike berets for everybody-same thing, plus they're totally impractical.
One E-7 I knew in the Reserves in the 1990s left AD as an E-6 when a bitter divorce made him a custodial father and he decided his son needed a more stable home life. He said of many of his active fellow soldiers that for too many of them "It's just a job.", too many enlisted for the medical and family benefits for their dependents. Several AF types told me in the 1990s the Air Force became very "chicken----" and I have met a couple of Navy types who bailed out after 8-12 years because they got fed up with the favoritism shown to female personnel.

I was in from '66-'70. Air Police, then changed the name to Security Police. As I spent most of my tour as a security troop, my duty uniform was fatigues. And they were sharp! Creases you could cut bread with. All pockets were interior. as all outside pockets had the flaps sewn down for neatness. When one of my sons got married 35 years after my discharge, he was amazed when I spit shined his shoes for him. No patent leather for him. Once neatness is learned, it's never forgotten. I know how to clean my personal quarters too. I felt really hurt when I came back stateside in '68 and found it not prudent to be seen in uniform. I was proud to wear the A.F. Blue. I guess things just change with time. I think probably every generation talks about "the way is was back when". Ahhh, we earned the right, did we not?

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Endeavor to persevere. <><

Well, to me, military discipline and what you wear are two totally different subjects. I was in the very last of the brown shoe Army. Yes, we had discipline. My wife's brother in-law was a Captain around the seventies, and he told me when he got out, "if it was my Dad's Army, or even your Army, I would have stayed in. There is no discipline anymore. Sergeants can't get their men to do anything unless there is an Officer standing behind them. The quality of most enlistees is gone. This was before the volunteer army, so can't speak for what's going on now. But the trend was set, and I know they use waivers to keep their enlistment figures up. That's not good.

I have served twice in Iraq and once in Afghanistan. Here's my take: What happened is two major wars and a Global War on Terror. Service members in tactical units have been deployed over and over in the past 10 years. Practicality becomes more necessary than ceremony and pomp. Our ACU uniforms, while not as sharp as starched shirts and trousers, are utilitarian. Desert boots don't require polishing and are actually usable in the terrain we deploy to. Many soldiers "grow up" in the military as lower enlisted in a deployed environment, where soldiers live together much closer, even with their NCOs and officers. Salutes and "Yes Sir!"s are replaced by interaction on a more personal level. I have no idea what things were like in the 60's and 70's, that's way before my time. This is just my experience in today's Army.

Military bearing is certainly not as sharp as it used to be, and I agree our uniforms don't look very good. But the military has had more important things on it's mind the past decade. As the wars wind down, Commanders and CSMs will start bringing the garrison side of military life back in full force.

All that said, I was in the 82nd for a few years, and I can tell you Drill and Ceremony is alive and well. More than once I stood in formation for hours in the baking Carolina sun, helping to keep that part of military life alive.

I still work with some of the Navy's new guys, the E-1 thru E-3 need liberty cards, I thought that was all done untill the last few years.

I agree the BDUs are not kept as nice as we did, the dress uniforms look pretty good. I think the Navy has fallen into the "kinder gentler" mindset.

The SEALs I see are not to talkitive about it. There are a lot of other services coming in...

Yesteryears

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Shoot fast & live long
Warren

Well, guys when Bill Malden was doing cartoons for the Stars and Stripes he called them:

"Garitroopers".....meaning they were far enough up front of the garrison to not have to wear a tie and be freshly uniformed......

and far enough back behind the enemy lines to have no fear of being shot or shot at.

The lack of discipline is really more of a lack of pride. I noticed it first in klinton's first term of office. He showed total disrespect for all military (the feeling was mutual) and that attitude flowed downhill. If you respect your commander in chief, and he respects you (even in non-election years), the pride is there, and is reflected in not only your dress, but in all your actions. I guess I'm too old-school, but military personnel are the reflection of all America, and should always be at their best.

I understood, before I got out, the point made about appearance.
If you are not exacting in your appearance, you have no pride in
your branch of service, and therefore, no pride in yourself.
The excellence in anyone shows up in their very appearance;
individual units of service excel because of that pride. All the training
in the world won't make a fighting unit out of a bunch of slobs. They
just don't have the "spark" that makes them great.
JMHO, TACC1.

I was a USAF troop from 1966-1970. A C-130 engine mechanic for 4 years. I traveled as far east as Italy and as far west as RVN. Our duty dress was 60's era green fatigues. Washed, starched and pressed. No off base wear of fatigues was allowed unless driving to or from your off base quarters.

Black jump boots or the newer "Chuka" boots were allowed, but were shined. We reported for roll call in the hanger every morning at 7am, stood that formation and then reported to our work areas. Depending on how "remote" our work area was on the base, some of us would change into coveralls and "shop / working boots". My work area on an engine runup test stand could get pretty grimey at times with engine oil and prop. hyd. oil. We wouldn't think of leaving the work area in that dress though.

I must agree that todays service members are some of the best the USA has seen, but I dislike seeing the BDU or whatever worn in a non-work / non-combat environment.

During the mid to late 60's all AF troops who held a non-mechanical job wore 1505's or class A blues. Off duty it was almost anything we wanted to wear. I don't remember any restrictions. Maybe on-base, BX, Commisary etc.

One major difference I see today is the high and tight hair cuts worn by many. We tended to look more like civilians when out of uniform, but would get hammered if we strayed too far from regulation.

LTC
Sgt. USAF, 1966-1970

I think so too. Every time I go to one of the military bases here, EVERYBODY is an E-7 or above with a beer belly! I am not the only one that see's this either.

By today's standards most of my outfit wouldn't be allowed to enlist. I was a high school drop out when I enlisted. Can't do that today. But the military needed bodies and if you didn't enlist you were going to get drafted anyway. By the time we got out of Great Lakes we were men. Still had our flaws but had pride in ourselves and in the Navy. If you messed up you went back to day one and started over. My oldest son put in 12 years in the Navy and just shakes his head over things like how we were stacked like cord wood in the berthing areas of the old Sumner class destroyers. Never had running shoes or "stress cards" in boot camp. Seems they have something called a stress card today. Means if you think your being worked to hard you can show your stress card and they have to ease up on you. Bet the guys at D Day would have liked to have one of those. Seems like Mom and Dad ran a stricter ship at home in the 50's than what the military runs today. Patent leather shoes were meant for little girls to ware with their Easter dresses, not fighting men. I'll shut up now before I start on how every kid that joins the military is a home town hero. We got spit at!

Ted

Careful on those sweeping remarks...there are MANY E-7 and higher who are in great shape and fit for duty.
[IMG][/IMG]

They must hide when I come around.

I cant really say anything definitive on this as I have no personal experence with it but judging by what I saw in the paper about 6 years ago showing a woman in the army qualifying with an M9 despite heavy flinching that showed up in the photo.

I'm kind of wondering if its simply because the rules and regulations have become more lax along with the training judging by that photo and the grumblings Ive heard from people I've known from high school who went into the military and thus instead being taught to keeping up the image their being taught only to follow orders and thus not the ideals of the military to an extent and its showing through offbase and around civilians.

additional: also I was raised by an airforce man and that was actually how he got started in his trade as an engineer but ironically I dont think I've ever asked him about this.

It is not just in the military, it is pervasive through out our society. There is a lack of respect for tradition and history.

In the ER where I work, it is common for staff to address the physicians by their first name. Being old fashion I decline that priviledge.

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I am a sheep dog!
1601 (ret)

I think it started around '71. I was stationed in San Diego and as a Coasty we mostly followed Navy rules and when I went in ('68) you wore civies or dress uniform when off base. When Zumwalt (Zoomy) took over the navy folks, they went to pot. Would see them roaming around town in dungarees looking like they hadn't been cleaned in a month.
When I left San Diego after 4 years, I was farmed out to the Navy as an instructor at NAS/NATTC Millington (Memphis). In the 2 and a half years I was there every class was worse than the last. Females and all. In '75 it was time to reup so I did some praying, analyzing and soul searching. Conclusion, the military wasn't military any more so I got out.
Larry

I wasn't allowed to wear my BDU's off post. That didn't bother me a bit. Those things were hot. I felt much more comfy in my own clothes.
I did notice that that the Guard and Reserves weren't to tight.
I was aviation and we weren't always perfect.
I got in more trouble for my mustache than anything.I had never shaved it before basic and haven't done so since.Sorry, I just couldn't do the Hitler thing. I'm a Southern Man.

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Dum vivo cano

I was just happy when let us go to the drive thru at Mickey D's in our fatigues.

It's pretty weird seeing guys in BDUs at Home Depot.

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“What you got, ain’t new.”

The Army at least - the Navy has somewhat loosened up camo wear regs recently for the same reason - wants people out and about doing their shopping, running errands, etc wearing Army camo. It's a good advertisement for the Army, shows the Army presence in the community, and lets people interact with soldiers. They've also gotten rid of berets and gone to the patrol cap in the Army for general wear. It was/is useful and popular.

Flying in uniform is to a certain extent encouraged for the same reason. Shows the flag so to speak.

The Marines technically have a third type of camo - there's very limited issue of Multicam for those assigned to Socom. Though Multicam is more of an Army thing

Navy folks assigned to the Marines used to wear Marine camo, and some still do (Corpsman on active assignment). But Navy personnel merely assigned to a Marine base now wear their own camo. That was partly the wishes of the Marines - who didn't want non Marines in MarPat, and partly the wishe of the Navy who wanted their sailors to be distinctive.

Flight suits as a fashion statement by aviation related folks... well various WW2 items of flying gear that weren't proper uniform still ended up worn regularly. It's how aviators show pride.

Anyway... society and all that really crumbled when the barbarian custom of wearing pants instead of proper togas took over. Then there was the even worse invention of the printing press, and pretty soon books were written in vulgar tongues and not in proper Latin. There, we traced that trend of decay back to its roots.

0530 take fresh set of OG-107 Cotton Sateens out of locker being careful not to cut ones self on the starched creases, force legs carefully in to the pants leaving as much of the crease intact as possible. Unbutton the left shirt pocket and force ID card into pocket disturbing starch as little as possible.
0550 waddle to company formation area bending knees as little as possible to prevent wrinkles and keep as much of the crease as possible.
0600 Formation
0615 Chow Hall, Dribble undercooked scrambled eggs down from of shirt.
0630 Back to barracks to change shirt.
0700 report to motor pool for motor stables.
0800 By this time in the Fort Sill summer your freshly starched OG-107s are sweat soaked and limp, your spit shine is scuffed to the bare leather from crawling around under a deuce and a half, and your fatigue cap looks like it has been dunked in the waste oil bucket.

AHHHHHHHHH the good ole days.

I have had soldiers on my team, squad, section, platoon that you would have thought looked like Joe **** the Rag Man but could burn through the Soldier's Manual of Common Tasks and score perfect along with performing MOS related task blind folded with one hand tied behind their back. I have had soldiers that were Pretty. They looked lie they belonged on the recruiting poster. Problem was they couldn't perform to save their lives. Most of the soldiers I had the pleasure to serve with were somewhere in between the two. However, when the nut cutting comes give me a platoon full of the first.

Why did you not starch BDU's? Anybody?
Because it made them light up the IR scope like a neon sign.

Why the change from Spit shine boots to rough texture no polish boots?
The polished smooth leather boots had a higher radar signature. It was easier to detect the troops wearing them with personnel detecting radars being developed in the 80s. As were troops wearing starched cotton uniforms.

Technology is a driving force in uniform changes. It is not all a lack of discipline.

Sorry, but I have to disagree. Everyone in my unit had field uniforms and garrison uniforms, even when (for the short time the entire US military was) wearing the same woodland camo pattern BDUs.

When we prepared for Desert Shield/Storm and later OEF/OIF, no one starched their DCUs, although we did prep them with insect repellent, and the suede boots went out without any modification.

There is a place for field uniforms and garrison uniforms, and I don't buy the argument that when the country is at war, everyone needs to look like they are serving on the front lines. Wearing flight suits, ACUs, ABUs, BDUs, etc., in the Pentagon and senior (general officer) headquarters is dumb! And when the senior leaders do it, it allows the rest of the military to act the same way.

I work for DA-and I'm a retired Infantry Officer-My son is an Airborne Artillery Officer with three combat tours-three close frioends of the familiy are NCOs in various branches-and I work with a retired senior Air Force NCO and a number of retired Army NCOs. The soldiers in today's military are disciplined-tough-capable. And you know what? They always have been-In the mid '70s a Captain in the advanced course stated that the soldiers weren't as good as they had been during Vietnam-he was told that he had no right to command troops (he's lucky he wasn't slugged)-It's this way-being critical of these kids who put their lives on the line is the epitome of arrogance.

There are some awesome acts of courage being performed in Afghanistan, not least by the bomb disposal units - one medal winner personally disarmed over 100 bombs. The level of fitness for UK infantry is olympic level - fighting in harsh terrain in 40-50 degree heat with 80-100 pounds of kit/body armour. Phenomenal. And they WANT to be there, fully believing in what they're doing - there was a waiting list to go to Afghanistan. If there's one reason to support the mission, it's the people taking part in it. Only Terry will benefit from failure.

I think they're perfectly entitled to wear what they want in Afghanistan and grow beards etc.

All coming out now isn't it?

When we were first issued Battle Dress Uniforms we were told starching would result in consequences. Several of the garrison soldiers found out the hard way that meant Article 15 proceedings. You can make yourself presentable without being charged with destruction of government property. There were bins full of starched BDUs at the DRMO a few months after the roll out, BTW.

Still, I don't care what you do to your utility uniform in the Texas/Oklahoma summer heat and humidity by noon they all look soggy and limp.

OH, I almost forgot the crys that the Army was going to go to hell in a hand basket when the OG-107s were changed from the pure cotton cotton sateen to a permanent press cotton polyester blend.

I can honestly say that all I wanted was to be at sea. I didn't give a rip about what we were wearing. They told us what to wear, we wore it. They wanted liberty cards, I carried one. I even traded with guys that didn't want to go on shakedowns or even be the PO in charge of getting spaces ready.I liked it.
A LOT.. If I hadn't decided that I wanted to go into LE, I never would have left.