38 special cannelure questions

[Razir66]

Hi guys, reload 9s but no experience doing 38 sp or anything with cannelure. My question is, a few casings Have cannelures close to the mouth where my 130 grain bullets would be pressed into it. Is this ok or should I toss them? When I trimmed these with a case trimmer that has the pilot that goes into the case, I couldnt even get it inside the case due to the cannelure ribs. Seems like I should toss, just want to hear what others have done who encounter these.
Thanks.

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[arjay]

I just use them.

[Nevada Ed]

You will find single and double crimp bands on a lot of different
cases from a lot of different companies for the different types of
bullets that they load. Those cases look like ones used for 110gr Jhp.
It will not have any bearing on the next type of bullet loaded into that case.

I do have factory Rem. 148wc cases that I save for the same weight bullets
due to the short ammo boxes that are too short for longer bullets.
However the cases will work with any bullet.

Just size, de-prime and bell your brass and start loading........

It sounds like the case is not belled enough for the bullet. A little adjustment
and you should be good to go........... with a crimp die set correctly at either
light, medium or heavy.

[Cd586]

The cannelure doesn't even have to be used on the majority of 38 Special loads. I agree with Nevada, there is no way that the cannelure should be interfering that much with the bullet seating.

[Razir66]

I guess I did a poor job explaining. I am not to the flaring stage yet for seating the bullets. My concern was the cannelure creates such a deep ridge inside the case that the case trimmer will not even fit inside the case for trimming. Therefore, when I actually do seat these bullets they will be be pushed into this ridge and minimally score the bullet jacket or perhaps buckle the casing. It is only these nickle cases, I think they are Peters that have the nasty ridge inside the case like that. Most of the other cannelure casings are very minimal as far as crease depth in the case and I am not concerned with those. I am strictly referring to the grooves in the casings, not the bullets.

Originally Posted by Nevada Ed

It sounds like the case is not belled enough for the bullet. A little adjustment
and you should be good to go........... with a crimp die set correctly at either
light, medium or heavy.

[Nevada Ed]

38 brass is not like shooting custom prepped rifle cases for 1,000 yard comp.

It does not need inside reaming or neck shaving.........
actually there is really "Nothing" one can do to make 38 case better unless you might mess with the flash hole.
Shooting a barrel of 6" or less depends 94% on the shooter, since there are too many variables with a round.

Leave the metal on the case...... it will last longer. Maybe a
light bevel at the lip if you think it is needed but if belled right
no case surgery is needed.

Good loading.

[muddocktor]

Like the others said, I wouldn't worry about that case cannelure, just use them. It might minimally score the base, but not enough to matter IMO. And they were probably originally loaded with 110 grain JHP bullets or maybe some light lead bullet, which is why that cannelure in the case is as high as it is. After a few reloadings they should pretty well be a non-issue as far as protruding into the case as they will slowly work themselves out with repeated shootings and reloadings.

[scooter123]

If the ridge is as prominent as you have described I would toss the cases. Because they probably will cause the case to buckle if you press in a longer bullet and ironing that ridge out will be more work than they are worth. In addition they are nickle plated which for me is an automatic trip to the disposal bin. Nickle plated cases just don't seem to last nearly as long as plain brass.

[Razir66]

Thanks Scooter. I figured this since the case trimming pilot is a narrower diameter than the bullet and I could not push it in.

Originally Posted by scooter123

If the ridge is as prominent as you have described I would toss the cases. Because they probably will cause the case to buckle if you press in a longer bullet and ironing that ridge out will be more work than they are worth. In addition they are nickle plated which for me is an automatic trip to the disposal bin. Nickle plated cases just don't seem to last nearly as long as plain brass.

[ironhead7544]

I would load some and see if it is a problem. I have been loading 38 Special since 1972 using mixed brass and never had a problem. As long as the round will chamber it should be no problem.

[OKFC05]

reload 9s but no experience doing 38 sp or anything with cannelure. My question is, a few casings Have cannelures close to the mouth where my 130 grain bullets would be pressed into it. Is this ok or should I toss them? When I trimmed these with a case trimmer that has the pilot that goes into the case,

You are definitely overthinking this non-issue. Forget the trimmer, load the cases as normal, and flare the cases enough to seat the bullet, then crimp.
The .38 special headspaces on the rim, and if the cartridge goes into the chamber, it is fine. Save the trimming and case detail prep for bottleneck rifle cartridges, where it has a purpose.
By the way, I shoot .38 revolver in competition, and load tens of thousands a year....using nickel plated brass too.

[nicky4968]

If you insist on trimming the case (as I do) you can load some plinking loads in the untrimmed cases. After one or two firings the cannalure will have been ironed out enough that you will be able to get the pilot past it.

[Razir66]

I do not understand this. If you are crimping after seating the bullet and there is a large variance in case lengths, then setting the crimp on a longer case would mean no crimp on a shorter case, or setting crimp on a shorter case would mean tighter crimp on a longer case. It would make for more consistent pressure if the case lengths are the same IMO. Also, my only point about the case trimmer was how deep the cannelure ridge was meaning the bullet could maybe buckle the case and/or the ridge could score the bullet.

Originally Posted by OKFC05

You are definitely overthinking this non-issue. Forget the trimmer, load the cases as normal, and flare the cases enough to seat the bullet, then crimp.

[Jaymo]

If you don't want them, you can send them to me.
PM me with the quantity you have, I'll give you my mailing address and I will pay shipping.
If they are not too long to chamber, and are not damaged, I will shoot them.

Have you decapped/expanded/resized them yet?
The expanding step usually takes care of that for me.

I'd load them and shoot them. That cannelure will iron itself out and the case will last as long as it lasts. Once the case splits, it is worn out and should be tossed.
I don't even trim .38 brass, unless it is going in my M52.
I'm still experimenting with different trim lengths for that gun, since there are many different opinions about the correct trim to length and seating depth of HBWCs for that gun.

In your case, decap/expand/resize/bell/load/shoot/repeat.

[OKFC05]

I do not understand this. If you are crimping after seating the bullet and there is a large variance in case lengths, then setting the crimp on a longer case would mean no crimp on a shorter case, or setting crimp on a shorter case would mean tighter crimp on a longer case. It would make for more consistent pressure if the case lengths are the same IMO.

Clearly, you don't understand the practical realities of loading .38 ammunition.
Unless you are capable of shooting 2" groups at 25yds, you will not even see a variance of 100fps in a .38 load.
No offense, but while your lack of confidence is understandable, your theorizing of "perfect crimps" or "more consistent pressure" is a waste of time for loading plinking .38s to shoot in a revolver at normal handgun distances. Just borrow some confidence from the decades of experienced advice you are getting, load a few, and try them.
Also, there are NRA loading classes available in most areas.

[Razir66]

OK, I guess that is what everyone was trying to say but you said it. Thank you.

Originally Posted by OKFC05

Clearly, you don't understand the practical realities of loading .38 ammunition.
Unless you are capable of shooting 2" groups at 25yds, you will not even see a variance of 100fps in a .38 load.

[rwsmith]

If you want to keep the cases all of the ideas above sound good. Personally, I wouldn't worry about trimming right now, load best way you can that will work in your gun and shoot the problem out.

[scooter123]

I have no argument with any of the statements about no need for case trimming, the simple truth is that it won't produce an observable improvement in accuracy unless you are using a 4 power handgun scope and have a LOT of practice time in to develop the ability to shoot a handgun to one Minute of Accuracy.

However, I have personally buckled both 38 special and 357 Magnum cases and the effort required to do this is darned near nothing. So a cannelure in the case positioned for a 110 grain bullet and deep enough WILL cause the case to buckle if a 130 grain bullet is pressed in. Been there, done that, The only options are to either ID expand the case and re-size or use a 110 grain bullet of the same length as the original.

If I happen to get any of these cases in a bag of once fired brass they go straight into the disposal bin. Because they just aren't worth the hassle of trying to make them work.

[Razir66]

Yeah, I buckled a couple cases simply resizing them. Pretty sure it was from not having the case fully in the shell holder aligned perfectly under the die and/or not using case lube. They are definetly more delicate to work with than 9s due to the extra length.

Originally Posted by scooter123

However, I have personally buckled both 38 special and 357 Magnum cases and the effort required to do this is darned near nothing. So a cannelure in the case positioned for a 110 grain bullet and deep enough WILL cause the case to buckle if a 130 grain bullet is pressed in. Been there, done that, The only options are to either ID expand the case and re-size or use a 110 grain bullet of the same length as the original.

[David R]

These targets were shot with fired untrimmed used brass I don't know how many times. Some of these brass were nickel with the cannelure in the same place as your example

These were max loads of Promo with a Button nose wadcutter crimped in the crimp groove.





The scope made more difference than the load.

Load, shoot, repeat.

The cannelure is more of a decoration or identifying mark on the case. Just ignore it.

[aurora40]

I wonder if a neck sizing expander die would help, like a Lyman or Redding? You could also seat the bullets shallow.

[chief38]

I load mostly lead bullets and it is a non issue. Just try them (with yours) and I think you will find all is good.

[BLUEDOT37]

Originally Posted by Razir66

Yeah, I buckled a couple cases simply resizing them. Pretty sure it was from not having the case fully in the shell holder aligned perfectly under the die and/or not using case lube. They are definetly more delicate to work with than 9s due to the extra length.

If you can, I'd invest in a carbide sizer. It's a lot less aggravating & I don't think I've ever buckled a case with one. You can buy it separately.

When you size a 9mm, because it's a tapered case, you don't fully contact the (entire) case until you're just at the end of the stroke. The 38, being a straight wall case, sizes progressively as you run it thru the die.

I added a Lyman "M" expander die to my 38/357 set. I like how it has a deeper (.479") expander plug than the regular one. I think it's better, especially for lead bullets, & I'm sure it'll take care of those case cannelures too.

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