Thinking about trying Titegroup with:
.44 Remington Mag Starline Case
220gr Berry's FP Copper Coated
5.8 grains to just over 800fps hopefully.

Goals:
Clean burning
Good metering
X Punching accuracy out of a 69 4.25" @ 25'


I'm out of powder currently and will pick some more up this weekend. I've run Titegroup on 38/158/LSWC, and was happy with it in the past. My only hesitation is that my mind's eye s telling me to go with something a little slower for that heavy of a bullet, But then again, with the pressure that low maybe titegroup would be just right. Anyone use titegroup for lead, or coated, on .44 spcl or mag at spcl (Listed) grains?

My last bottle of poweder was Trail Boss. I wasn't unhappy with TB, so I could just go back with TB. I'm thinking that Titegroup would be a little cleaner.

I've used TG in my 9mm & 40 S&W with Xtreme plated bullets with very good results. Load a few and try them :-)

I don't have a .44 but I have used it in a .357. It meters very well in my two Dillon's. As far as cleanliness its OK.The last time I bought powder I got CFE pistol and like it better but would buy Titegroup again.

I have loaded just about every pistol caliber with Titegroup. I really like it. I use it in .44 Magnum and .44 Special with excellent results.

According to the Hodgdon reloading data website. 5.8 grains of TG with a Berrys 220 gr. FB should be right at 800 FPS.

Set your sights on pistol reloading data | Hodgdon Reloading

I have used titegroup in the 44 magnum . In fact I went as high as Hodgdon's max w/a 240 swc , if I remember correctly it was about 10 gas. I found 7.0 to be the " sweet spot " . What I don't care for is the fact that it is soooo dense that you can't hardly see any powder in the case . It's like you use a pair of tweezers , grab a couple of grains and that's the charge weight . I'm not getting into the " double charge " debate here . I just like to fill the case a little better .
I dropped titegroup from my powder line . Red Dot fills the case better and works well in the " specials " (38, 44 ) . I have started using WST and really like it best . It shoots accurate , very very clean and puts a decent charge in a case so you can actually see it . Regards, Paul

I'm loading 4.4gr. for .44 Special and 5.5gr. for my .44 Magnum loads both with 240gr. Keith style cast bullets. Both are fun, accurate easy shooting loads.

Attached Images

IMG_4347.jpg (105.3 KB, 48 views)

7.1 grs of Titegroup under a 250 gr cast SWC chronos right at 900 fps
out of my S&W 4" 29-2.

Back when powder was short (and my stockpile low) , I found an 8# can of Tightgroup at a gun show. I find it to behave allot like Bulls Eye. It's not always my first choice but is pretty versatile. I've used it successfully in 38 SPL, 9MM and 45 ACP ( mostly with Extreme plated bullets.) Upside is that it does produce some very accurate loads.
Downside is that it burns hot, stains cases and gets smokey if used with cast lead.

I've got about 7# more experimenting to do....

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Dave

I have had great luck with Titegroup over the past 20 + years - no problems and it goes a loooong way too!

For me the pros for tight group are cheaper than a lot of orhers,not position sensitive witch is important in the 44mag, meters very well, easy to find a accurate load, and 8 pounds should keep you shooting for at least a couple months. The downside for me is it burns hot very very hot and it is hard to see in the bigger cases and it can be used in a quite a variety of calibers. For me those are the pros and cons and of course yours will be different but I hope there was some helpful info in there. Good luck and have fun

Sent from my SM-T377V using Tapatalk

I like Red Dot/Promo, Bullseye, or 700X for mid-range 44 loads in mag brass. Pleasant to shoot, accurate and cleaner than TG without that sticky residue. Tight Group will work, but I prefer it more for 9mm or 40S&W.

Is it just me, or does TG burn cleaner at higher pressure? My impression with half a can, anyway. My go to powder for 800 fps to 950 fps in a .44 mag case with 240 swc's is Red Dot. 5.5 to 6.5 grains about covers that spread.

For what its worth, I tried a limited number of loads using the Berry's plated in a couple of .44's with known accuracy, and none shot as well as jacketed, or my usual cast bullet loads. Not bad, but not GOOD.

Larry

Titegroup is the most accurate pistol powder I have found to date.

Every powder on the market burns cleaner at higher pressures.

I use 5.7gr of Titegroup under a cast 240gr LSWC in .44 Mag to give me a consistent 870fps from a 7.5-inch barreled Redhawk.

PRO: meters well, easy to find on the shelf to purchase, low cost, small charge weights make the cost savings even larger but my favorite pro is that is tends to ignore cavernous empty space inside the case and it quite insensitive to powder position, so using it for light loads in big revolver cases works better than most other powders I have tried.

CONS: I'll list these line by line so they can be addressed

--there may exist no better powder to blow up a firearm with a careless double or triple charge than Titegroup. High energy, low charge weights, dense, takes up such little space, it is perhaps the finest powder on the market if your goal was blowing up firearms. So while you must be diligent with all powders, this powder specifically won't tolerate carelessness.

--Titegroup is a high nitro powder and it absolutely burns hot and in my experience, it burns hot enough that after many many trials with different bullets and charge weights, I have declared for the rest of my life that I'll never use Titegroup in .38 Special ever again... because I have grown up wrapping my left hand around the cylinder to eject brass and two cylinderfuls of Titegroup in a K-frame cylinder actually burns my left hand to the point where I don't want to handle the revolver. I have tried more times than I care to count and my final answer is simply that I don't use Titegroup in .38 Special. --HOT--

--it's either Titegroup or Power Pistol... but one or both of these will eat the plastic in my Lyman 55 hopper. Over years of use, it etches the inside of the plastic and eventually it destroys it, especially at the bottom of the hopper where it locks in to the metal unit. Obviously, much less so when you don't get in the habit of leaving the powder full for an overnight or longer... a habit to avoid generally with all powders. I believe the high nitro content of Titegroup may be the culprit? This isn't a big deal but it is relevant.

--for newer handloaders that haven't yet developed a "feel" for how to best make use of different powders, I personally believe that Titegroup (and some other powders) set a bit of a trap for the novice handloaders, a trap that is never warned by the powder manufacturers in their published load data... that trap being "Oh, here is load data for Titegroup, I have Titegroup, I'll just use Titegroup!" For a novice handloader, they see it published, they have the powder but they don't understand the reality behind what they are building. And .44 Magnum is a great example. In this particular discussion, we are talking Titegroup for very light, low/medium velocity loads, which is fine. But a novice will see full-pressure "magnum" loads and make them and figure he's got top-performing .44 Magnum when in fact he does not. What he has are loads that are top pressure, poor velocity because it is the wrong powder choice and a pressure curve that it the polar opposite of smooth and predictable. All the fury associated with a proper load but without the performance. And while the proper powder load can be developed, the Titegroup load will just lurch beyond "safe" without the warning you'll get from a proper, slow burning powder.

^So that's my biggest "con" and complaint with Titegroup. All the published data for Titegroup that is available, attempting to use it to run real magnum loads is a horrendous idea. For target velocities and reduced velocity loads in magnum chamberings, Titegroup is fantastic. For maximum loads, Titegroup is one of the worst powders on the market -- especially for novice handloaders that aren't familiar with burning rates.

I am not a fan in small cases much less cavernous 44mag. Many like TG I am just not one. Charge volume is too small, burns too hot, but it is accurate & cheap, but then so are several other powders with 1.5x the loft.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

I don't try to make powders "work" for a particular application. Every gun I test gets to taste 15-20 different powders and (usually) 5 or 6 bullets. The gun always tells me which combo tastes best ... as in superb accuracy in a particular velocity range.

So far, none of my guns likes the taste of Tightgroup better than other combos.

For a downloaded 44Mag I like the Berry220FP @ 900-950 fps. The most accurate recipes in my 3" 29 and 6.5" 1957 Ruger are 10.5 grains of WW540/HS6, 9.5 grains of AA5. For better economy with only a smidgeon less accuracy, 7.0 grains Bullseye works for me.

My 540 is gone and I won't replace it; I'll be using AA5 until my Berry 220FP's are gone. Won't restock them either.

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Carry.."hope" isn't a strategy

You won't find me loading Titeboom powder in large volume revolver brass. It has blew up more than it's share of 500 S&W revolvers with what owners swear was published data. If you don't believe me look up posts by John Ross.

If I remember correctly , the max charge of Titegroup in a 44 magnum using a 240 gr bullet is about 10 grs . I truly felt this was an extremely high charge of such a fast burning powder . But Hodgdon's should know more than I do so I loaded a few , using a 245 gr swc . It was , in my opinion definitely too much powder . After 2 cylinders full , the gun was hot , I mean real hot and the accuracy was poor . About all I can say good is " well they shot clean " . If I only had TG to use for target loads . I found that 7.0 grs w/a 240 gr bullet was a nice combination . Today I use WST or 700X , same charge weight of 7.0 grs / 240 gr bullet . Regards, Paul

TG is too low volume for my tastes. I prefer the loss of a few rounds per pound of powder than the loss of a gun due to too much powder.

I've been loading with Titegroup for over 10 years. I have to agree with everything Sevens posted about Titegroup. However I do use it in .38 Special loads but I guess I don't shoot fast enough for the heat to be an issue but I can see how it could be. Yes it is unsettling at times to look in a .45 Colt case and see 5.5gr. of Titegroup leaving about 90% of the case empty but the accuracy is excellent and the same care should be taken no matter the powder being used.

For those that use Tite group, here is a little test.

In a 44 Mag case put 5 grains of in each of 10 cases

Put 6 grains in one case marked ion the bottom - have someone else tell which case has been over filled by 1 grain.

My experience is no one get it right.

Now deside if you think you can safely determine an overload.


Be safe
Ruggy

Try Accurate No. 5
7.5 - 7.8 grains will give you around 900 fps.

700x
5 - 5.2 grains. 825 - 850 fps.

HS-6
7.5 - 8.5 grains 825 - 925 fps.

231, HP-38
5 - 5.7 grains 800 - 850 fps.

Here are a few options other than Titegroup. I’m not a fan for all the reasons already posted.

If you cannot follow the plainly written instructions regarding maximum charges or are easily distracted then titegroup may not be the powder for you. Also you should probably not buy a car capable of exceeding the speed limit. Titegroup will not try to trick you into double charging. Just follow the recommended charge weights in your manual and everything will be fine. As was pointed out however Titegroup is not the best choice for true magnum loads. I have run max loads for years in 9mm, 40S&W, and .45acp. In .357 magnum it works well but if I'm going for a true "magnum" load there are better powders. Still, Titegroup is my go to for probably 90% of my shooting needs.

If you are using a quality powder measure dropping 5gr. Then how do you end up with 6gr. In a case?

While TG doesn't "trick you" it does not lend itself to easily verify charge wts. Not unlike BE back in its day, it KB a lot of guns because it is just hard to tell if it is 5gr or 10gr in a cavernous case. It is very consistent though & cheap & that is why so many love it. I also do not find it all that accurate with lead bullets either so just another reason I avoid it.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

I loaded one pound of Titegroup powder. Darn near melted the bottom of the powder reservoir plastic tube...No I didn't take the powder out but it was only over the course of 3 days. I also thought the powder burned much too hot. A couple of cylinders and wow. Seems to me to be the same problem every one complains of with L'il Gun...except there is much less powder per load. I decided to use older much bulkier powder. Even though I think I can be safe with it...it doesn't make me feel all fuzzy and happy like other(older, like me) powders... And to top it all off.... I have bunches of almost free Red Dot Green Dot 700X HS-5, 6 and 7 Al-5,7,9 and other powders. I think I should use them up first. I doubt I can use them all up in my lifetime as it is

What kind of plastic is your reservoir made of. I routinely leave it in my lee powder measure and after a while the plastic gets a little cloudy but after years it has never gone any further than that.

I have a sheet of copy paper that I roll up and slide in my powder measure. Prevents any sticking or discoloration.

Years ago I had a 45 with a ported barrel and I thought I'd try me a pound of Titeboom. It didn't take long for the lead from the cast lead bullets to nearly plug up the port holes. I've always read that Titeboom burns hot, and I believe it.

I have used Tightgroup almost exclusively for pistol reloading for the past several years in .38 Special, 9mm, .45 ACP, 44/40 and .45 Colt with both lead and plated bullets.

It is accurate but only useful at “target” velocities.

As an IPSC shooter I have always had to overload from .2 - .5 gn to make power factor in both 9mm (125 PF + margin) and .45 ACP (170 PF + margin). My loads are often noted as being on the hot side by my fellow competitors. Recently using my long standard published max plus load of TG in new .45 ACP Winchester cases I had a number of cases blow out on me. I have since changed to .W321 for both 9mm and .45 ACP. I still have to load slightly higher than recognised max published data to make PF but by much less a percentage and at lower overall pressures (15,500 instead of 17,000 PSI in .45 ACP according to Quickload).

As my .38 Spec, 44/40 and .45 Colt loads are much more on the mild side I will keep using TG in those calibers.

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View from down under

What bullet wts are you reloading that you have to overload to make 125PF? I can do that with powders even faster than TG & still be under max in 9, 40 or 45??

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

I've used 3.5 grains of TG for years as my goto plinking load in 38 spl using 158 grain SWCs and I've been happy enough. As everyone else has said, a little goes a long way! I shoot DAO all the time, and I've never noticed it being any hotter in temperature than say factory loads - so IDK there. My only complaint with it is I think it's quite smokey for a "smokeless" powder.

I've been meaning to give HP-38 a try at some point.

Just use common sense to avoid double charges!

BUT I don't use it in any of my 44s as 2400 has been my goto versatile powder for both my 44 mags and 44 spls.

For truly magnum performance in my 44, 41, and 357 mags - my choice is H110.

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DAO Hunter, SWCA #2955

I prefer to load to PF plus an extra 5-7 PF margin to allow for chronographing at matches (I once ended up shooting .45 “minor” at a match). The 9mm factory ammo I used as a test round gave me a PF of 133-135.

The max listed load of Tightgroup for 9mm on Hodgdon’s site is 4.2 gn for a 124 gn plated round, however I was seating the bullets out slightly for use in .38 Super mags as standard length would sometimes nose dive and jam, so I was not making the safety margin I was looking for. I ended up at 4.4 gn to make a 131 PF in my pistol.

In .45 ACP TG was not making the 170 PF (159-162 depending on the time of day in my Springfield 1911) at the max load of 5.2 gn. It only just (171 PF) makes it in another pistol, at mid morning on a summers day.

It was not my chronograph. I ran some Winchester 230 gn Factory ammo listed at 880 fps/202 PF across it in two pistols for PF’s of 193 in my SA and 198 in my new Tanfoglio Witness 1911 (8am on an early summers day)so the chrono is reading okay. I feel that individual pistols have more effect on a loads velocity and now tailor loads that have to make PF for each pistol.

So while I now feel TG is a great powder at “target” load level I am changing powders for my competition rounds.

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View from down under

Hmm. I make PF with WST, slightly faster than TG. I prefer it to TG because of its loft & slightly soft recoil. I can easily make 135PF in a G19 with 147gr bullets. In 45 with 200gr, 170PF is well within pressures.
Loading your bullets quite long in 9mm will obviously reduce vel & pressures, so your load is NOT over pressure in that pistol. Not trying to change your mind, I do not use TG, but sim burn rate powders like WST, RedDot, Ramshot Comp, all easily reach min PF in any of the service calibers, especially with heavier bullets.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

This is a great idea!! The powder mesure in this case was a Hornady. The bottom end of it looks like it was on fire at one point.

Now I am not a handgun game competitor but I really don't understand this "power factor" thing. Hells bells, just let anyone shoot what they want within reason. If they want to go so low the gun may malfunction...their loss in my opinion. I assume the power factor is mostly about recoil and gun movement. Or just tell everyone they must shoot factory in matches. Every body is at the same starting point then. Shoot the Grand American Trap shoot and you used factory ammo...at least it was that way. I shot serious skeet and used factory ammo. All practice was reloads though.

Well PF is to put as level a playing field into the game. You can tune many pistols to shoot loads that would make a defensive shooter scoff. So a min PF is just that, a floor for competition. Otherwise idpa & uspsa would look like CAS, a bunch of old dudes shooting large bore 22lr.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Level playing field= factory ammo that everyone has to use. What you are saying in effect is that some shooters want to "legally cheat", if you will. I have watched CAS and while it looks like fun(any shooting looks like fun to me) someone told me that the winner of a tied match could come down to how authentic the shooters may be. LOL! Don't know it that is true or not. Not knocking the games but seems like there would have to be a lot less "rules" with factory ammo without having to check every ones ammo. JMO...YMMV

Just wondering..why does TG burn so hot? Is it because of the nitro content or just the complete formulation? I was always told BE had the most nitro and it doesn't seem to burn so hot. I know BE doesn't take up much room for it's weight but TG seems much less bulky

Shooting 250 - 400 rounds of factory ammo several times a year in competitions would be expensive (I shot half my last comp with factory .45ACP after an ammo failure and it cost me an arm and a leg). Reloading is the way to go unless you are sponsored by an ammo manufacturer.

Major PF is 170 and above calculated by multiplying velocity by bullet weight and the dividing by 1000. It ensures everyone is shooting realistically powered ammunition and scored 5/4/2 in the IPSC/USPSA scoring zones.

Minor PF is 125-169.9 and is mainly for 9mm shooters. .40 cal shooters have the option to shoot either minor or major, but in IPSC Classic (single stack) most shoot minor for the additional 2 rounds they can load in their mags (major is restricted to no more than 8 rounds). Minor scores are 5/3/1 on the target zones.

It allows the three aspects of IPSC/USPSA, speed, power and accuracy to be almost equal. There is still a premium on speed over accuracy in the equation.

Incidentally, those factory rounds I used, WincHester 230 gn JHP, had a PF of 202. And Cowboy loads have a PF floor of 60. 150 in Wild Bunch events.

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View from down under

Oh I understand the costs associated with factory ammo. Shooting 500 or more factory small gauge shells in skeet is very expensive(I don't shoot 12 ga at all using the 20 in 12 ga and doubles). Shot as many as 10,000 registered targets a year. Still, to do away with all those power factors and all to create a real level playing field would be the most equal way to go. It is after all a game to simulate shooting skills in self protection, isn't it? Please correct me if I have the wrong idea. I've never shot handgun games seriously. I did build a 586 Race gun once. I always came in last in a day at the races

.But to get back to the real question...why does TG burn so hot? Are there any others that are close to it? BTW I've never used BE at all either.

Titegroup is 15th on the burn rate scale and Bullseye is 13th. Just google gunpowder burn rate scale.

I can only rely on personal observation, but I haven't seen the "extreme heat" aspect of Titegroup and there have been no burns to flesh or damage to superheated gun parts.

I've done no extensive testing with Titegroup and don't know if there is anything to the claims. If the critics know what they're talking about rather than just repeating some baseless Internet allegations, then I have no argument.

My work using Titegroup was with the 9mm Luger, .38 Special, .44 Special, and .45 ACP, maybe one or two others, all with cast bullets. As I recall, Titegroup provided good accuracy in all cartridges, but overall, fell slightly behind Bullseye. I no longer use Titegroup for that reason.

Considering how all action shooting is scored, to the 100th of a second, not likely to ever have a tie.
Sure factory ammo would be ideal, but reality, most serious competition shooters are well over 10k rds a year in competition & practice. So setting a min PF is reasonable. That PF is just under factory spec ammo in idpa. This allows for some ammo/gun anomalies. Its a good system, but there are some that still try to cheat it to win that little plaque. There are also rules that govern mods to the guns too, & ones carry gear, all to make it about the shooting & not the gear.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

TG burn rate has nothing to do with the heat generated. That is a product of its composition. I have seen a fiber optic melted on a usps gun from a fast, long string on a near 100deg day. The only other powder I know of that generates that heat is lilgun, waaay on the other side of the burnrate chart.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

I have seen the warnings about L'il Gun in the past. I started using it in the 410 quite a few years ago because you could get enough in the 410 shotshells and still get a 1/2 ounce of shot(mainly in the old AA case) and since I was shooting tubed O/U I liked the much lower pressures. I use it in the 22 Hornet and sparingly in the 41 Mag for my bear loads with the 250 gr WFNGC. No burned top straps yet but I only shoot them sparingly. I did notice that 410 cases did get burned a bit but they don't last all that long anyway. I also noticed that the 41 cylinder does get pretty hot over the course of 6 rounds. I only push them at about 1200 FPS out of my old 57(4 inch). I did notice the cylinder on my old M-19 got very hot after a couple of cylinders of 38s loaded with TG...so Since I had beaucoup bunches of other older tech powders I never bought anymore TG esp when I started loading 38s on a 650 Dillon

Velocity actually doesnt really affect the amount of heat that TG & LG produce. I have run fast 30+ rd strings, 2 mag changes, like all shots under 24sec, the slide is too hot to hold onto with bare hands. This doesnt happen with any of about a dozen diff powders I have run in 9mm.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Wow. Red Dot and 700x are faster than Bullseye! Who'd a thunk it?

Personally, I use Unique in just about everything - unless it doesn't shoot well and that rarely happens.
I kinda like a little smoke from my guns.