Came across a advertisement for a Model 25 that states that .45 Colt caliber but can use .45 ACP with half moon chips (same cylinder).
Is this possible ?

Yep…

Cylinder Machining for S&W Firearms Revolvers | TK Custom Store

Never heard of it in a S&W -- but evidently Ruger figured out a way...

American Handgunner Ruger "Convertible" Redhawk .45 Colt/.45 ACP - American Handgunner.

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Pisgah

I have a Jframe that can use full moons or loose .38s. Only thing is that the chambers would have to be cut for 45colt. Your accuracy might suffer shooting the shorter loads. The correct moon clip drops into the relieved part of the cylinder while the rims of the .45 colt rest on the uncut outer edge of the cylinder. But it would shoot either. TK custom did mine.

The S&W model 25-2 is designed for the 45 ACP using either 45 ACP auto rim brass or regular 45 ACP with moon clips. I don't believe you can do that with one designed for the 45 Colt.

You can if you modify it. TK Custom just needs the cylinder and they will cut it to use .45 ACP with clips while retaining the ability to use .45 Colt.

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No good deed goes unpunished.

It sounds to me like someone modified the original 45 ACP cylinder to accept .45 Colt by drilling the step out the ACP cylinder. I imagine if you dropped an ACP round into that cylinder, it would not headspace correctly, so the only way to shoot ACP thru it now is by using moonclips, or possibly .45 Auto Rim brass.
Just my guess.
Tim

One would think that S&W would turn the light bulb on and...........

just make a cylinder, to slap into their revolvers, so that would not be such a big deal, to fire different 45 cases........

Like Ruger did with it's 22 and 22 magnum single six revolver's.

Maybe it is a safety thing ??

A rim, is a rim...

And a rose, by any other name, is... A rose.

Cheers!

Any .45 ACP revolver cylinder (swing out) can be easily modified to shoot .45 Colt and .45 ACP in clips. Modification is to simply elongate the .45 ACP cylinder chambers so the .45 Colt rounds headspace on the mouth so the rear headspace is OK. Not sure if anyone supplies such modified cylinders as standard equipment direct from the factory, but I doubt it. In the case of a Ruger SA, the cylinder face would also need to be shaved to allow enough headspace to accommodate the .45 AR and .45 ACP in clips. but it would make absolutely no sense to do it that way.

At one time, and maybe still, Ruger .45 Blackhawk SA revolvers could be supplied with two separate cylinders, one for .45 ACP (without clips) and another in .45 Colt.

Unless the cylinder was severely modified, I'd doubt it. Headspace?

With the exception of the very heavy .45 Colt loads, one can easily tailor .45 ACP or Auto Rim handloads to approximate .45 Colt factory load performance and beyond and do it safely in an S&W 25-2 that's in good sound condition. No real need for two cylinders, different sight adjustments, etc.

As many have mentioned, after a simple machining operation to your 45 Long Colt cylinder this works just fine

Tomorrow morning I will probably be shooting just such a modified Smith & Wesson Mountain Gun. Unfortunately I am 100 miles East-South-East of you

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"Acta non verba"

This proposal fails on multiple issues.

Only a very small percentage of America's shooters hand load, so that will not work for the masses

Any 45ACP ammunition so hand loaded would not function properly in 45ACP chambered Auto loaders. I want my 45ACP ammunition to function in all of my 45ACP firearms

A hand loader using 45 Auto Rim would need to buy a different shell holder and different brass to add a third cartridge to his/her inventory that is intended to do what the original cartridge the revolver is already chambered for can do.

This thread is not talking about increasing the power of a 45ACP revolver cartridge.

This thread is not talking about using two cylinders. This thread is asking if a 45 Long Colt revolver can safely chamber and fire 45ACP as well. The answer is yes, with some machining

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"Acta non verba"

Well, afterall, this is a Reloading forum... Who cares about "the masses"?

It does indeed require AutoRim brass and a different shellholder to reload 45 AutoRim.

45 AutoRim is not designed for semiautomatic pistols: it was designed as an alternative in the military application of the 45acp for use in revolvers. My pre-Model 25 is designed to shoot 45acp with (or even without) moon clips OR with 45 AutoRim.

You can, indeed, safely load 45 AutoRim to (and above) standard 45 Colt (i.e., non- "Ruger Only"!) velocity and energy levels and shoot them in N-frame revolvers, with more flexibility in bullet weights & OALs than with 45acps. According to Starline, their 45 AutoRim brass is every bit as tough as their 45 Colt or 44 Magnum brass, BTW.

Not to argue, but one modified cylinder with the right moonclips might just work for all three...?

Cheers!

Ok. Sorry. I'm confused. Can my .45 LC Model 25-5 shoot .45acp ammunition through it? With cylinder modifcation or without cylinder medication (eg cut for Moon Clips)? Or can I try and find a .45acp cylinder and swap it onto my gun? (I have a Model 25-5 and am yet to shoot it. Had a little trouble finding .45 LC ammo for it).

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This is opposite from what the OP was asking about.

Additionally I've never heard of such a thing & don't see how it would work for multiple reasons:

1- 45ACP cylinders are shorter than 45 Colt cylinders. A max length 45 Colt would be too long.

2- 45ACP revolvers have more shell head clearance than 45 Colt revolvers so a 45 Colt's case would be too far away from the frame breech & firing pin if it's rim was contacting the cylinder's face.

3- All factory 45 Colt ammunition is roll crimped. Roll crimped cartridges are designed to headspace on the rim, not the case mouth. A roll crimp does not allow for reliable or constant headspacing on a chamber's shoulder; a taper crimp is needed for that. 45 Colt revolver chambers don't have shoulders; 45ACP revolver chambers do.

4- A rimmed case head that's not touching the cylinder face will have unsupposed case wall.

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Converting a 45 Colt revolver to shoot 45ACP is easier than converting a 45ACP revolver to shoot 45 Colt.

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Waiting for the break of day

I concede. Since it was in the reloading section, I thought my suggestion appropriate. Maybe not.

Nice looking Model 25 that you have there Moo Moo

Yes, you can have your original 45 Long Colt cylinder machined so that it will fire both cartridges

Finding a 45ACP cylinder to fit your existing revolver is a much, Much harder chore. Your 45 Long Colt cylinder is longer than the normal 45ACP Model 25 cylinder.

Most of the twin cylinder Model 25s are based on the shorter 45ACP cylinder. The drawback here is that depending on the projectile used, some 45 Long Colt rounds are too long for that 45ACP cylinder

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"Acta non verba"

I agree, this question is in the wrong Forum. Members do occasionally post to the wrong place

A question like this may have been more appropriate in the Gun Smithing Forum.

Occasionally Moderators will move a thread so that the responses do not drift too far from the Original Question that was Posted

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"Acta non verba"

In the words of Coach Corso, "Not so fast...!"

I thought your post was most apropos. And correct as well!

Cheers!

I've had several .45 Colt handguns and several rifles and one carbine for the cartridge in the last forty years. I've also loaded for the .45 ACP and Auto Rim in a number of revolvers for a long time. I've had no use for hot loads in the .45 Colt.

Also after working with the .44 Special for many years, I've found it gives up nothing to the .45 Colt. I eventually lost all interest in the .45 Colt. Too many different cartridges that have virtually the same performance, I suppose, but I'll not try to talk anyone out of any of them. They're all good. Like other revolver cartridges or long guns that use revolver ammo, cast bullets are best and really all that's necessary for these guns.

My remaining .45 Colts, an S&W 25-5 that I bought new in 1980 and the Winchester Trapper carbine purchased new about ten years later are going with me to the next big gun show instead of continuing to take up safe space.

Just to confirm, I can have the cylinder on my 3" 625-3 45 acp punched out to 45 Colt? Didn't think the cylinder was long enough, but I never measured it.

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213th FBINA

I'm not a gunsmith, but I don't think that would work; the cylinder is only about 1.5" in length.

The best way is to modify a 45 colt cylinder like this one

The 45 acp moon clip fits in the recess, 45 colts rims headspace by lip left on outside
Similar to this 38 special cylinder modified to use 9mm or 38 specials



The lengthen cylinder so 45 colt will headspace on case mouth will also work. Except for 25-3 and earlier, 45 colt cylinders are longer than 45acp cylinders as some of the heavy bullets are 2 long for the shorter 25-3 which used 357 and 45acp length cylinders. But most factory rounds would work in those length cylinders. S&W did make a few real short acp cylinders with long barrel shanks. Those would be a poor choice to convert.

I have a bunch of 45 colts but, now only 2 use the modified cylinder to fire both. The 4" 2nd up on right is converted from a 629-1 and the blue 3 1/4" made from a highly modified 1917 on lower left.

rockquarry:

Do you happen to know: does your 25-5 chamber the longer 454 Casull brass as FortuneCookie45LC has experienced in his and warned about in a series of YouTube videos?

If so, that's a BIG KABOOM! just waiting to happen!

That cartridge was, from a factual standpoint, developed long after there were already S&W revolvers chambered for the 45 Colt round.

Cheers!

P.S. If they do I don't want to be around if someone tries to fire one off: that's for SURE! I guess I should really compare it more to shooting a "Ruger Only!" reload in an original 45 Colt SAA: hard to blame that one on Sam Colt!

I don't have any idea if my gun will chamber .454 Casull and I don't watch the YouTube gun maestros.

But...an old edition of CARTRIDGES OF THE WORLD shows the two cartridges as having identical dimensions. Assuming that information is correct , the Casull cartridge should fit perfectly in any .45 Colt chamber.

Well, they sure do appear to be a different length (and "breed of cat"?) now-a-days...!

That, and the over 50K pressure for the 454 Casull!

Cheers!

P.S. Not everything on the YouTube is worthless: I actually thought the guy in this case was very sincere and really concerned about somebody getting hurt. Had a friend just this last week trying to put a 270 WSM in his 270 Winchester Savage magazine: needless to say they wouldn't chamber, but you really had to look closely on the box to see the WSM vs. the "270 Winchester" markings.

You're probably right about YouTube. What little of it I've seen that was gun or handloading related was pretty much unimpressive, sort of like watching "The View". There's probably some good stuff on YouTube as well as a lot of not-so-good.

The 45 Colt & 454 Casull do not have identical dimensions. That reference is wrong.

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Most revolver & pistol offshoot cartridges generally have brass at least 1/8" (.125") longer than their parent cartridge's brass, ie: the 357 Mag over the 38 Special, & the 44 Mag over the 44 Special, both are .125" or longer than their parent.

The 454 Casull is an exception with it's brass a little less than 1/10" longer than it's 45 Colt parent, at just .098" longer.

Previously I checked & found that some factory 454 Casull rounds I had could be chambered, & the cylinder closed, in my M25-13 45 Colt, though none of my handloads would.

Something about it's roll-crimp made the difference.

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Waiting for the break of day

Are you saying starting with a 45ACP cylinder & lengthening the chamber for 45 Colt?

Again, 45 Colt chambers don't have a shoulder for the case mouth to headspace on. 45 Colts headspace on their rim.

45ACP cylinders have a shoulder for the case mouth to headspace on.

How is a factory 45 Colt cartridge, with a roll-crimp, going to headspace on it's case mouth consistently?

Please explain.

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Waiting for the break of day

Based on your photo, the dimensions from "Cartridges of the World" is incorrect. My apology for providing bad information.

No apology needed. Likely just a typo in the book that wasn't caught in time & an honest mistake.

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Waiting for the break of day

You are correct. Roll crimped 45 colts will not headspace consistently depending on amount of crimp. Using hand loads with a taper crimp like an acp would work fine. But in my opinion it is a poor method of making a dual cylinder. Much better off starting with a colt cylinder and having it cut for acp in full moon clips. If you want more case capacity lengthening the chambers and using hand loaded 45 Winchester mag brass is another option.

You can also take an N frame 357 cylinder and ream it to 45 colt so the B/C gap is close. then instead of adjusting the frame lug, have a .040 shelf cut in the rear OD of that cylinder to clearance the longer length of the frames acp lug. I did that once and it worked well.

I've talked about in other threads but since it's come up again I'll mention here too.

In my forum thread When .45ACP In Your S&W 625 Isn’t Quite Enough… Step Up to the 45 WSM I detailed how to convert a 45ACP revolver to 45WSM & get many of the 45 COLT advantages at a minimal cost, and still be able to shoot 45ACP, from a shortened 45 Win Magnum case loaded to 45 Super pressures, giving you near 45 Colt powder capacities in a lightly modified 45ACP revolver.

Jacketed bullets are taper crimped & headspace on the case mouth, just like a 45ACP does, & can be shot with or without moonclips.

Bullets with a cannelure/crimping groove, either jacketed or cast lead, can be roll crimped but require moonclips for proper headspacing.

Personally I've never liked cramming a heavier than standard weight bullet in "pumped up" small capacity cases which is why I thought a longer than 45ACP case length would be great fun for heavier loads in 45ACP revolvers

Some recent chronograph tests have netted Power Pistol propelled 230gr JHPs in the upper 1100 fps range at +700 ft/lbs and some Blue Dot loads over 1200 fps.

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Waiting for the break of day

I really like your idea, but then I am a moon clip kinda guy..........

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV

You can use them to your heart's content with the 45WSM, no problem.

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Waiting for the break of day

Perhaps it is time to revisit this thread from a dozen years ago.

1950 Model 45 Target - Found in Tucson

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

Early .454 Casull loads used .45 Colt cases, back before SAAMI standardization and factory production. For quite a while, .454 ammunition was pretty much a handloading proposition. Some old reloading data references use the .45 Colt case length.

I have revolvers in 45LC and revolvers in 45acp. No need to modify either one.

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S&W Accumulator

Well I do too but not everybody does so...?

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Waiting for the break of day

Agreed.

The 454C cartridge I used in my example above was newly manufactured (Hornady) & well after the 454C was SAAMI standardized.

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Waiting for the break of day