1950 Model 45 Target - Found in Tucson

I was able to purchase this revolver from a fellow SWCA member at the SWCA Annual Meeting in Tucson, Az. While there were many exciting and wonderful guns to be seen at the meeting, for a 45Wheelgun fan, this gun pushed ALL of my buttons.

It is in it's original numbered box, it is in very nice condition. I am not the best grader of guns, I'll let the pictures speak for themselves.











Here is where it gets interesting. This gun comes with a second extractor. The original extractor (numbered to the gun) has been modified to extract .45Colt. A second extractor has been fitted to the gun to extract .45ACP in moonclips.



This is a very old and yellowed index card that was in the box. I have been told the "Sutherland Collection" was sold in the early to mid 1970's. This gun was also in the Betts Collection (former president of the SWCA). In spite of what the card says, it was shipped in March of 1951 according to the factory letter.



Here is the .45ACP extractor with the label that came with it.



A Cylinder of .45Colt:















With the .45ACP extractor in place.









To say I am thrilled would be an understatement.

There are so many great reasons to join the SWCA, but finding that "one gun" at the annual meeting is a reoccurring theme on this forum. Many of the members saw this gun at the Thursday night "show and tell" and I got some great input from the members at that time. My suggestion to you, if you are not a member, is to seriously consider joining the SWCA, I wouldn't have this gun if I hadn't.

I have not gotten it to the range yet, I'll be interested to see how well she shoots with both types of ammo.

Anyone who knows me at all, knows I didn't take these pictures...tip of the hat to our own Lee Jerrett for the pictures.

Very well done and thanks for sharing. I am new to this forum and to S&W firearms. How difficult is it to get a .45/.45 colt S&W that would be used to shoot?

Congratulations are in order for that one! I'm impressed. Double-duty guns that chamber a couple of different rounds are interesting creations.

Please let us know how the range trip works out.

I am suprised that S&W does not offer that 2 extractor feature today.

That's a neat way to convert to .45 Colt. It leaves the case unsupported a bit, but I imagine there would be no problems, considering the low pressures involved.

I like the 1918 cartridges too. I have a few Winchester .45 ACP cases, stamped "W 18", from 1918. According to the range managers, an older man would come out every few months and shoot a 1911 with WW I ammo. This was in the 1970s and there were few misfires.

Time to spring my trap-

Put $200 in small bills in a paper sack, and drop it in the alley behind Rosa's cantina in El Paso, or you'll never see the gun again.
Better yet, bring it inside- I'm in the last corner booth (they got Wifi now) waitng for Feleena to dance.


NEAT old gun.

I agree, Gil- this is about one of the neatest conversions I have seen. NO headspace problems. NO problems with the cylinder sliding back and forth, and NO problems with ammo clearing the frame lug in either caliber.

I could not find an empty 45 Colt case- I was going to saw it in two lengthwise just to show that the unsupported head of the case is still completely solid as I feel that it is.

Congrats, that's a great find.

Awesome firearm and friend to sell it.

45Wheelgun,
Thank you for writing this up. The work that was done on this revolver was some absolutely great machining and some creative engineering. I appreciated the opportunity to discuss it with you. Look forward to hearing about this as you learn more.

If I understand what I am seeing, there were 2 things done during the conversion.

Start with any S&W revolver originally chambered for .45 ACP.

1- The .45 ACP chambers are deepened to accept the longer .45 Colt case

2- The ejector/ratchet star for the .45 ACP is removed and replaced by a custom ejector/ratchet star that was cut to hold the .45 Colt cartridges the proper distance from the firing pin bushing and recoil shield on the back face of the cylinder window of the frame.

Just swap extractors, already fit to the sixgun's hand, and there you go!

This would be a tremendous thing for some good gunsmith to set up!

That is a great piece, 45wheelgun!

Hamilton Bowen, are you reading this?

Congratulations on that incredible piece! I stopped by Murphy's Guns in Tucson today, that is one awesome store. Several nice pieces in their cases there that would be mine if I had the $$$.

Battletech58 said:

Very well done and thanks for sharing. I am new to this forum and to S&W firearms. How difficult is it to get a .45/.45 colt S&W that would be used to shoot?

Click to expand...

S&W has never offered a dual caliber .45ACP/.45Colt (to my knowledge) as a cataloged item.

This solution is unique to this gun and would have required a master engineer/machinist/gunsmith to create. This should be repeatable by a quality gunsmith.

Others have fitted a second cylinder to an existing .45 revolver. The problem with that solution on a S&W is the frame lug needs to be modified to fit the 45Colt cylinder. When you put the original .45ACP cylinder in place the cylinder will slide back and forth a bit, due to the modified frame lug.

A secondary issue with the two cylinder solution is you risk damage to either cylinder, yoke and the screw head of the side plate screw in order to swap the cylinders. Those risks do not exist when changing the extractor only. You also miss the chance to scratch the slide plate with the screwdriver...

Single Action guns (Colt SAA and Ruger Blackhawk) can do the two cylinder solution without the frame lug issue due to their design.

I don't have a 1950 to compare, and wondered if the 1955 version could also be converted in such a manner. I don't know if the cylinders on the 2 models are the same length.

So I'm looking at my 25-2 here, eyeballing, using a plain metal machinists rule and some R-P 45 Colt rounds it "looks like" it would work, i.e. there is enough room. Such a conversion on this revolver might be limited in OAL length to selected bullets if such a 45 Colt extractor was installed, but looks "doable".

Interesting, and congratulations on your fine revolver.

rayb

Dave, neat, "one of a kind" 45 ACP/45 Colt. Should be a great gun to shoot.

Bill

Dave,

excellent post and even better gun. Somehow I missed the show & tell , I think by Thursday afternoon I was plum wore out. Congratulations on the aquisition.

Dan

This is a very interesting thread. It shows what quality engineers and gunsmiths from the past can do. They were probably glad to do something out of the ordinary that tested their expertise and knowledge. Thanks for sharing and looking forward to a range report.

rayb,

The only difference between the 1950 and 1955 .45 Target revolvers is the weight and contour of the barrel. Cylinder length is the same. The length of the .45 Colt cartridges would be a bit limited. When the 125th Anniversary S&W, the M25-3 came out, it also had the shorter cylinder. The M25-5s have longer cylinders.

The only disadvantage of this conversion is that by lengthening the chambers to accommadate the .45 Colt cartridges, one loses the ability to shoot .45 ACP without clips. Personally, that wouldn't bother me in the least, as I have seldom done that in the various 1917s and M625s that I have owned.

Yes, I believe that some of the custom gunsmiths could do this reasonably.

Slick! I like creative solutions.

But now you can't shoot acp without moonclips (unless shooting uphill). Hmmm, small price to pay for an intersting piece.

Muley Gil said:

Yes, I believe that some of the custom gunsmiths could do this reasonably.

Click to expand...

Define "reasonably". Three years and half the national debt later...

Interestingly, it appears that the .45ACP extractor is from a 1917. Look at the two sets of locator pin holes and the style of the ratchet pads. The original extractor was used to make the custom one.

That 1950 45 Target is slicker than puppy poop on a freshly waxed floor! (smile)

I sometimes think the thing I miss most since moving from Tucson is "Murphey's Guns and Gunsmithing". One of the best shops I've ever seen. Some good people working there too.

Dave