Model 12 - Is it worth it?

[deerjw]

This beautiful 12-2 is at a local pawn shop. It looks new, but they say the original owner shot it 3 or 4 times to make sure it was accurate and then put it in the drawer by his bed and never shot it again. The cylinder locks up good and tight. There's no box, tools or paperwork. They're asking $500. From what I have been able to determine this is on the high side, but it sure is a sweet gun and I can't seem to get it off my mind. What do you guys think?

[Xfuzz]

The naysayers will start complaining
about frame cracking.
But those were few and far between.

One of Smith's most under-rated revolver's.
$500.00 is a go....IMHO

[Ashlander]

It's a great gun to not shoot. The aluminum frame is famously weak -- especially the thin portion under the barrel. It was designed as a light gun for pilots to carry in case of emergencies -- and that's about how long they last. An Air Force shooting instructor I know called them disposable guns (of course, he was comparing them to the steel counterparts).

I respect Xfuzz's opinion above, but I thought you are entitled to the other side of the story.

[chud333]

My LGS had a very clean 12-2 just like the one you pictured.
Price tag was 595.00
I put it on layaway and asked the forum that evening about
it as i have never run across one before.
Some fine members told me about the frame issues and i took
it with a grain of salt "yeah right".
Went back to the LGS two days later and opened the cylinder and
checked the under side of frame. (Top Strap area), It was cracked right where they
told me to look.....
Seems S&W over torqued the barrels on some of these aluminum frame
guns. I showed it to the shop owner and he was surprised as he had not
seen it. The gun looked like brand new.
He thanked me and said he would not have wanted to sell it as such.

My advice is take a pass on this model.


Chuck

[Engine49guy]

The 4" M&P Airweight is not as common as the 2" snub but its a conundrum in that a 4" barrel is better suited as a duty weapon than a CCW yet an airweight frame is not as durable and better suited as a CCW.

If your an M&P collector it fills a void in the collection,
Then again IMO the pecking order for desirability of M&P Airweights is
1) Air force issue
2) Pre Model 12 , Five screw frame, High speed hammer , alum cylinder
3) Pre Model 12 , Four screw frame,
4) Model 12 or Model 12-1
5) Model 12-2 diamond grips
6 Model 12-3
7) Model 12-4 (uses standard grips)

Nickel gets a premium over blue/black
RB snubs get a slight premium over SB
4" SB gets a slight premium over 4" RB

[Aircrewman]

The "Airweight" model 10...... Well, I have a pre-12(no model # indicated. It's a 2", blue, round butt. Nice gun. Father-in-law's off duty when he was a police reserve. No cracks but I haven't shot it much. I agree with the previous posters about want,desire, "collector type" and if it is a gun to use and shoot much. I would get it if I were collecting. Probably wouldn't if wanting to shoot it very much.....only because I would worry about the frame cracking issue. If you are able to get a better price then I would give advice to get it. If not I think that I would hold out for something that I could use with less worries about the fragile nature of the gun.

[deerjw]

Thanks for all the replies and insights into the model 12. It sounds like I need to proceed with caution and for sure check for cracks if I decide to try to get a better price. I have one last question. Since this gun is out of production, what would S&W do if I were to buy it and then the frame cracks?

[Camster]

Originally Posted by deerjw

Thanks for all the replies and insights into the model 12. It sounds like I need to proceed with caution and for sure check for cracks if I decide to try to get a better price. I have one last question. Since this gun is out of production, what would S&W do if I were to buy it and then the frame cracks?

A pre 89? with no lifetime warranty.You might be out of luck.Why gamble on that notion.They won't fix it or replace the frame.Slight chance of a new production gun.
Sounds like a gun that will crack at some time,if used.Why would you still want it,if you're not filling a hole in a non shooter collection.

[darmtn1917]

The idea that a mdl 12 WILL IN TIME self destruct if fired over time seems a bit harsh. There was a test done by one of the forum members(+P Through a Model 12: THE TEST...is done!!!!) where he shot over 1000 +p and could detect no problems. Yes there have been a few that developed the "crack" but most don't and have been used with +p and standard ammo.

They make excellent carry guns and while few would recommend a steady diet of +P+ or +p they have a proven track record.

I'd also point out that "some " of the recent light models have reports of the same problem - usually referencing the over torque barrel problem

Op - it seems that the 4" shows up for sale less than a 2" if that helps

[pigbike]

Originally Posted by Engine49guy

The 4" M&P Airweight is not as common as the 2" snub but its a conundrum in that a 4" barrel is better suited as a duty weapon than a CCW yet an airweight frame is not as durable and better suited as a CCW.

If your an M&P collector it fills a void in the collection,
Then again IMO the pecking order for desirability of M&P Airweights is
1) Air force issue
2) Pre Model 12 , Five screw frame, High speed hammer , alum cylinder
3) Pre Model 12 , Four screw frame,
4) Model 12 or Model 12-1
5) Model 12-2 diamond grips
6 Model 12-3
7) Model 12-4 (uses standard grips)

Nickel gets a premium over blue/black
RB snubs get a slight premium over SB
4" SB gets a slight premium over 4" RB

I have what you list as #2 with the alum cyl. I don't know what a high speed hammer is, can you explain. I'll go check mine. Thanks.

[Bajadoc]

Buy it. You will probably always be able to sell it for as much if for some reason you don't like it.

[loeman]

Don't buy it! Avoid the hassle of selling it if you don't like it....Sorry Bajadoc.

[22hipower]

I don't see really nice 4 inch Model 12s very often. So, when an LGS had a 99% one I bought it. I'm aware of the cracked frame issue and wouldn't shoot it a lot because of that, but I wanted one to add to the herd. So yes, I bought it, $510 OTD three years ago. Good luck.

Jeff
SWCA #1457

[Alk8944]

deerjw,

It is a shame to see how many are ready to bad-mouth the Model 12 who have never either owned nor shot one! Yes, a few frames have cracked, but the steel frames have also been known to crack! There is no guarantee that any "Airweight" frame will not crack, but there really isn't concensus as to what what causes it! Just like current production J-A guns, that BTW have what seems to be a much higher incidence of frame cracking, some will be found with the "Lunette crack" that have never been fired, and more that have been fired thousands of rounds and are still sound!

A few years ago a forum member did a "test to destruction" of a Model 12 by firing at least 1000 .38 +P rounds through one of these (The keyboard commandos above will tell you +P will destroy a Model 12!!!), and the result was there was absolutely detectible damage to the revolver!

Years ago, before the +P was standardized there were loads published in the Speer #8 loading manual using SR4756 that were supposed to be standard pressure. One specific load actually produced more "Pressure signs" that typical factory .357 Magnum loads. Being relatively "young and dumb" and still believing the myth that all published loads were pressure tested and safe, I proceeded to fire some 200+ rounds loaded with this "magic recipe" in a 2" Model 12-2! Damn(!!!!) did they hurt! When I obtained a chronograph years later I re-created this load and fired it in a 6" Highway Patrolman, and got 1348 FPS. Does this sound like a standard pressure, or even +P .38 Special load to any of you? Based on later information I estimate this load developed at least 45,000 PSI! ABSOLUTELY NO DAMAGE was done to the Model 12, and I carried and shot it until I retired from my agency in 1990.

Do I recommend shooting .357 Magnum level loads in a Model 12, or and K-frame .38? Absolutely not! The point is that one of these guns, through ignorance (This was 45 years ago!), was fired over 200 times with a load developing likely at least 3 times the SAAMI MAP Standard for the cartridge at the time this occurred! The gun, that all the nay-sayers would claim should have disintegrated like a hand grenade, all because they "read it on the internet" sometime, and now they are repeating the lies someone else posted!

A Model 12 is an absolutely wonderful revolver that I can guarantee you will enjoy immensely. The prices that even standard, much more common, M&Ps are going for in my area are often at least $500. I would happily pay that much for a 4" (especially a round butt) Model 12 in the condition you show. It has been years since I have seen any 4" Model 12.

FWIW, I have owned a total of 3 Model 12s, a 12, 12-2 and 12-3, all 2". I carry either of the current ones daily in a pocket holster and never hesitate to fire them. I have no concern whatsoever to fire factory "FBI Loads" in either of them, and that is my daily carry ammunition.

Remember to, that like all mechanical devices, many of which can cost far more than any standard revolver, are expendable! They will all wear out eventually if used, and the harder they are used the quicker they will wear out. Firearms are unique in that they typically are far more durable than other mechanical devices, and they hold value far better! Think about that $85,000 Cadillac Escalade you just bought, How much will it be worth in 5 years? How long will it last? Yet everyone seems to think you can use a revolver and it should never wear out or lose value!!!! You use one enough it will wear out and/or break, face up to this and use it for what you bought it for and what it was intended for!

[alwslate]

Lots of opinions here and as usual most relate to the responder's
situation rather than yours. You don't say much about yourself other
than the fact that you can't get this nice looking revolver found in a
pawn shop off your mind. Based on this limited information I'll offer
my opinion. Get it off your mind, slow down and watch a ball game
or whatever on tv, relax. And then realize that if you have $500
burning a hole in your pocket looking for a new home there are a lot
of more practical choices out there than a mod 12. The same gun with
a steel frame, mod 10, for probably less money is a better choice
without the worries.

[redlevel]

I like to shoot K-frames. I have Models 10, 15, 19, etc., plus pre-model # all-steel guns that I shoot regularly.

I like to carry K-frames, especially 4" guns. They are fairly heavy in the all-steel versions. I have a 4" Model 12-2 that I carry fairly regularly in a Lobo iwb holster. It is a joy to carry. I shoot it several times a year, maybe 12 rounds at a session. Then I clean it and put it back in the carry rotation.

My advice: if you need the gun to fill a hole in your collection, buy it. If you want a carry piece that doesn't drag your pants down after several hours, buy it. If you want a piece to shoot thousands, even hundreds, of rounds each year, pass on it and buy a Model 10.

That sounds like a very fair price if the frame is indeed not cracked.

[Muss Muggins]

If it's not cracked under the barrel, I'd give it a shot. $500 is a little steep for my liking, though. If I could get it $400 out the door, I'd have it in my safe.