In recent times some NYPD .38 sixguns have made their way to the shooting public. I have collected "retired" PD sixguns for many years and the revolvers from the NYPD are pretty well known to those who specialize in NYPD sixguns. There is one NYPD-authorized .38 Special that I'm hoping someone on this forum can give me so data and info. I have all the NYPD-authorized .38 Service Revolvers from 1960 up until the wheelgun was no longer authorized by the NYPD. Most of these are Smith & Wesson's but there is one mystery .38 Service Revolver that no one on some of the other forums could or would give any information on. This is it;

Dan Wesson Model 11 (fixed 4" bbl., blue steel) in .38 Special.

The NYPD authorized it in or around 1971 as a third gun choice to newbe cops who didn't want the Model 10 or Colt Metropolitan MK III. I would assume that the "gun day" at Rodman's was the joyous occassion of the selection. Please help me if you can! Please!

David

The info I can give you is of course hearsay and of little value, but it is true. I had a buddy in the early 1980s, a NYPD officer, who carried a Dan Wesson .38 for patrol duty. He claimed to have had problems with a Model 10 S&W during range sessions and was granted permission to carry the Dan Wesson. Unlike other DWs of the period, his gun did not have the removable-barrel/shroud feature of the civilian/sporting models. He did not know of any other officer carrying a DW. This is all ancient history as this officer retired in 1983.

Hope I've helped.

Dabney
You are just the guy I have been looking for re: NYPD revolvers!
Welcome to the Forum!
In the 1970s, NYPD purchased some Chiefs Specials, according to the SCSW. These were for the Bureau of Police Women. Later, they bought some Model 60 stainless CS revolvers. I believe these were marked NY-1.
Were any of either group shipped with bobbed hammers?
Thanks,
Jack

Anyone else with knowledge of J frame NYPD guns is welcome to chime in here. Thanks in advance.

__________________
Jack
SWCA #2475, SWHF #318

Thanks a ton kaaskop49!
Your info is the "best" I have "ever" received on the NYPD DW Model 11. I have been searching for "any" data or information on this loch ness of NYPD service revolvers for a long time. Thank you so much sir! JP@K, I don't have the answer to your question, but DAO triggers at the NYPD didn't start until 1988, if that helps any. Thanks for your response sir too. I just joined this forum and this Dan Wesson info provided is just great!
David

JP@AK: I remember some of the first female officers put on street patrol, circa 1972. They were carrying square-butt Chiefs Special revolvers with 3" heavy barrels. In the early 1990s, a friend of mine, a female NYPD officer, carried a 3" Model 64 round-butt revolver. Sorry, I cannot recall if there was a hammer spur, but I know it was DAO.

Dabney: Her partner, also my friend, carried a 4" Ruger Service Six before transitioning to a full-size, double-column S&W 9mm, I don't know the model designation. She was never comfortable with the S&W as the training sessions concentrated on the Glock, the choice of most officers.

Hope this helps, people.

This 64-4 NY-1 is just as it left the factory. It does not have a single action capability. Joe

__________________
Wisdom chases me; I'm faster

The M60 NY-1 in double action only they were bobbed and had no cocking sear. We have discussed it on the forum pretty deep. I wish I knew how to find it for you, sorry. However, the M 60 NY-1 had a short life with the NYPD and is quite scarce. Some folks around here (like me) have them on the short list of want to buy and look for them all the time

The M36 had a long life with the NYPD in round and square butts. The were double/single action guns, standard production.

We are blessed that we have some folks here with hands on knowledge of this stuff!

The progression was the 36 to the M60 to the M640. The M640 had a dull finish special for NYPD.

Thanks again kaaskop49!
The Police Service-Six served at the NYPD starting in the middle 1970's in single & double action trigger and in blue steel in those days. Also the Colt Metropolitan was present in the ranks of the NYPD. Did you see any of these sixguns in your adventures sir? I have long sought the Dan Wesson .38 sixgun of the NYPD and any info about the other two .38's. The NYPD Model 11 and any data or stories about it is as rare as finding dragons teeth. As far as I know, that is one NYPD sixgun, there seems to be a "black hole" that has swallowed up all data concerning it. That is, until "you" stepped forward. Thank you for your service sir!
David

Since I am a picture errr poster pig...

Heres a Ruger Service Six NYPD


This is a Ruger GPNY also NYPD


Smith M 64 NY-1 4" square and 3" round


I have a M640 NYPD just dont have a photo.

There is also a Ruger Speed Six in 3"

Wheelgun28: Thanks for the cool photos! Memories...

Dabney: You're very welcome. Saw exactly one Colt Metropolitan in a holster. When the BLA began murdering cops in the early 1970s, some cops (quietly, without approval) began to carry extra firepower in their RMPs: cut-down shotguns, M-1 carbines... I knew one cop, a heavy hitter, who purchased a 4" Colt Lawman .357 Mag with small service grips and simply put it in his holster, carrying it in lieu of his old Colt Official Police during those violent years. Very few weapons checks during that period. Memories...

Thanks so much wheelgun28 and pharmer for the photos. Great pics of great firearms. Made great by the men and women who carried them, My idea of "super hero's", the NYPD!
kaaskop49, I entered law enforcement here in Columbus, Ga. in 1971, retired in 92 and went back to work a few days later as a Deputy and find myself now in charge of Security at a Government Bldg. we affectionately (i.e. read between the lines) call Fort Apache. it is a place where social ills are confronted and delt with. Five mental health clinics to include the Welfare Department for other social ills (read between the lines, sir). It (Health & Human Services Bldg.) was given the nickname, Ft. Apache several years ago by PD Officers here and the name stuck! Kinda/sorta like the Ft. Apache Precinct in NYC. Thought, with your connec with NYPD you would get a kick out of that. We worked through the same time period in this country (71-92). Same kind of job, one of us North, the other South!

Before kaaskop49 was nice enough to give me some info on a NYPD Dan Wesson Model 11 "he" knew about the only other former NYPD Officer I'm aware of mentions the NYPD Dan Wesson .38 on page 160 (paperback) of his book, My Life in the NYPD by James (Jimmy the Wags) Wagner. He (wagner) mentions the Model 11 as an NYPD authorized duty revolver for the 1971-72 time period. Thats been it, for me, as far as knowing anything about the NYPD and the 11. It may surprise you sir that my duty revolver here at Fort Apache is the old Colt Official Police .38 as this has been my primary duty weapon since Christmas Eve 1971 when my "beloved" parents gave it to me as a present. I'd better go now, duty is calling here at the Fort.!
David

Looking for the elusive 3 inch SB, and 4 inch RB.

__________________
Sure you did

Hello ladder13!
Thanks for the photos of the NYPD .38 S&W Service Revolvers in stainless steel with the NYPD trigger of double-action-only. That is a great collection you have there sir. Were any of these fine examples your duty weapon?

David

No, just some I bought from former/current NYPD friends, and elsewhere. One of my friends started out in the old "FOUR ONE" aka Fort Apache when it was located on Simpson St, Dave Cohen. He was run over right in front of the station his first week on the job.

__________________
Sure you did

Ladder 13, great photos. They're only plain-vanilla service revolvers, but I won't carry anything else.
I remember the Bronx back then, how FDNY had to install 1" armor plate (no joke) over the rear platform where firefighters would stand en route to a call. When newer vehicles had an enclosed cab for the firefighters to ride in, that also had an armored roof. Yes, people used to throw bricks from rooftops onto the firefighters who arrived only to help people and save lives. Some were grievously injured.
Folks of today would say we were lying if we related to them the gratuitous violence and abuse we public employees experienced in the Bronx (and other boros) on a daily basis over a 20+ year period.
Many thanks for your likes!

Informative thread. I remember reading about those instances back then. I figured it would easily solve the problem if a few cops rode along in firefighter gear and shot a few of the brick throwers. The "practice" would have ended right there I bet.

__________________
Have guns...will shoot'em.

I'm a novelist, and I've got a minor character who was a member of the Police Women's Bureau of the NYPD back in the early 1970s. From my research so far, she would've carried a Smith and Wesson Chief's Special Model 60 CS Revolver. I'm wondering how that gun might be different in feel and/or operation versus the sidearm carried by a current female NYPD officer (likely a Glock 10). For example, how does the trigger pull or kickback differ? I know nothing about guns, so any assistance would be amazing!

Hi. NYPD 1969~1990 and served as a Sgt and Lt at the Firearms and Tactics Section. Early 1970s the woman might have had a S&W 36, either 2" or a 3" heavy barrel (Police Woman's gun, so called.). No model 60 would have been allowed (guns had to be dark or blued in color).

Today a police officer, male or female, would very likely carry a Glock 19. There is no Glock 10.

Best,

Rich
(and fellow writer)

When I was with the NYC Transit police our gun choices were Model 10 HB or the Colt official police( I think). Everyone I know had a S&W as they could be bought at a discount through the department, and the Colt had to be purchased on your own at regular prices. The Off Duty choices were S&W Model 36 or the Colt Detective Special. All had to be blue. I left NYC at the end of 1975 so I guess there were many changes. NYPD might of had different options, but I think both NYPD and Transit PD carried the same while I was there.

Years ago I picked up an older M10, blu 4" barrel. On the back strap it was marked:
W NYPD
I called the New York Police Museum. They said that at one time female Officers served under a separate Department and that this gun was from that agency. I sold it to a local collector for a nice profit. I wonder if there aren't a few more of these out there?

Thank you for the amazing information, Rich! So great to get a good source. Any sense of where I could get information on the feel of the guns? My character hasn't used a gun since the 1970s, and I want her to miss her shot when she picks up the new Glock 19 because she isn't used to the...something. I don't know what would be different!

Max, the trigger pull of a semi-auto pistol use by the NYPD has a distinctive feel to it due to an excessively hard trigger required by the NYPD today, called the NY trigger. It’s a rather hard to pull 12 lb. pull. Although a revolver may have the same pull weight, for whatever reason a well-used S&W revolver will feel “smoother” and much easier to control, even though the poundage required to pull the trigger through might be the same.

You really ought to find someone with one of each of those handguns (you’ll have trouble finding a Glock with the NYPD trigger, trust me!) and see for yourself.

Rich

Dabney, regarding the DW revolver carried by NYPD. Carsten Stroud was a crime reporter turned author. He did time with the NYPD in researching his first novel Close Pursuit. The book was published in the mid 80's, so his research and time with them would have been the early 80's. He goes into a lengthy description of one of the side characters carrying a Dan Wesson revolver. I know its not much, but something.

Rich. Just ordered your book and am enjoying reading it.

__________________
Wheel guns are real guns too.

That's great! I do hope you enjoy reading it. (Which one did you order?? Practical Handgun Training? There are seven books I've published floating around in the ether.)

Rich

Practical Handgun Training. Would you PM me a list of your books please

__________________
Wheel guns are real guns too.

Done! My first four are out of print but available on Amazon. I've published a few since then, including the one you purchased (Practical Handgun Training). I tell people that writing books keeps me out of the local bars...

Way out here in Idaho I've come across exactly one NYPD S&W. It was a Model 64 DAO with the 3" barrel and round butt. I recall it had the proper stamp and the action was tight and timing was good. It was for sale at a local gun show. The dealer was a professional out of Utah. He wanted $650 (that is the figure I remember) for it. I really wanted it, but I just didn't have enough that day. Couple hours later I walked by his table and it had sold. Darn it. that was several years ago and I've never come across one since. Probably never will out here.

__________________
I type. Therefore I am.

Anybody who wants to know what NY was like in the 60's and 70's should rent Death Wish, The Warriors, or Fort Apache, The Bronx. Those scenes are accurate. People today can't believe that the NY of today used to look like that.

And the lone cop walking the beat with his Six gun and twirling his coco bolo nightstick used to be able to clear a corner full of miscreants with ease.

Is RMRivas still a member here? He had crates of cop guns and the records to support their lineage.

I've 41 years in law enforcement, the first 20 in the NYPD, 1969~1990. I worked lots in both the Bronx and Brooklyn, in high crime areas as a detective in; narcotics, homicide, robbery squad, others. When working in the 46 pct (Bronx Central Robbery) at night we'd hear shots going off every evening (not hyperbole). Since the reverberations of gunshots bounced off the hard surfaces of the large buildings in the area we had no idea where they were coming from. We ignored them.

That time period, working in the NYPD, was an experience. The inner areas of NYC were like working in a 3rd world country.

Rich

Some old NYPD photos:

Warrant at a Bronx "social club" around 1976.


Bronx Central Robbery. I was a lot tougher back then...


Bronx 9th Homicide Zone. Good bunch of detectives. I was the handsome devil with the beard.


Sometimes it just got so lonely... Meet Harvey Homicide, our squad mascot.

Great post Rich. I like the part about hearing rounds going off and ignoring it. If you traveled to parts of Brooklyn today you would still swear that you were in a foreign land.

Rich, we've traveled some of the same trails, although I came on the job later and retired in 2002. I spent several active years in the Bronx in the Emergency Service Unit, and ultimately retired from the Detective Bureau.

Correct me if I'm wrong, the gentleman standing to your right in the "handsome devil with the beard" photo is Lt. Vernon Geberth, author of "Practical Homicide Investigations" and noted lecturer on the subject of homicide investigations.

I enjoy your posts.

Aquarik, nope! Not Vern, who I know well (just spoke to him about a week ago), but Sgt. Bill Brady. When Vern was in the 8th Homicide Zone I was working in the 9th.

Rich

Are those shotguns on the table Ithaca 37's?

__________________
I type. Therefore I am.

RichCapeCod,

Could you post or PM me the list of your books? I have Rookie Cop, Sky Cops, and The Murder of Old Comrades, and I seem to recall having read one on K-9s, but I was not even aware of the others.

Thanks!