How many NIB or LNIB or even 97% condition without the box do you think are out there? Not necessarily for sale. My guess would be less than 10%, and less then 2% of pre models.Am I way off here.

The SWCA members can probably provide a factual estimate.

My answer: a LOT less than what is advertised

I think there's a lot of people who know how to clean them up. So, some people buy a nice gun w/box etc, clean them up and VOILA'; a NIB ad on GB...

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But then, what do I know?

+1 M3 stewart.
I would say the majority of them are owned by members here or the SWCA.
Most of us who really like to collect get out info from here or SWCA meetings.
Now that's LNIb or NIB. The 97% ones could be anywhere.

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John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor

There are at least half a dozen in our collection. Only one by actual intent, the others, including our new M&P 15, we just haven't gotten around to shooting. LOL gunslinger

As M3Stuart says, folks buy a gun, clean it up, and suddenly it's "never been fired" or NIB if they have the box. I looked at a nickel 27-2 8 3/8 (without box/papers) recently which was priced at $1200 firm on consignment. The LGS assured me it was "unfired since leaving the factory." And showed me the black rings around the three cylinders where it had supposedly been factory fired. The odd thing was that the face of the cylinder clearly had been rubbed with steel wool or some other material leaving many tiny scratches where carbon had been removed. Somebody will likely buy the story. . . .

According to GunBroker, every gun on the damn site is new in the Box and only factory fired.

They are definitely out there, they just NEVER seem to come my way.

Not that I have statistical evidence, but it seems to me that the ones that are NIB are picked up from Estate Sales by older collectors that never got around to firing them.

For the record, just looking for an average baseline. From what I have seen.

K22 is 99.999% not a mark or wear on it.
m28 no dash only has a cylinder ring. It's 99%
m28 no dash is 99.9%
m28-2 is 99.9%
m27-2 blued is 99.99%
mM7-2 Nickel is 99.999% no wear at all it looks new but being owned I rate it at that.

My problem is why do they all look like they weren't fired or not fired at all?
Since the m27' s are dated in the dirty Harry era I can understand they purchased it on a whim. And never shot it.

Now I think if some were shot they were handled very carefully.

Now my,

Combat masterpiece k38 has 99.999% bluing.
Target Masterpiece k38 has 99.999% bluing.
Both revolvers had very slight freckling which removed very carefully to reveil an excellent rating.
All of the above were under rated by the seller I purchased them all from. My online dealer has been the best so far.

I have some other guns as well as these have never been to the range yet but will be soon.

The bottom line is or the question is how many purchase these fine quality s&w revolvers and don't shoot them?
Locally here I find about 75% of the used guns still unshot in the LGS used cases. The percentage could be even higher.

Do a survey when your browsing your local gun shops and give us some feed back on the used still unfired revolvers vs the fired one's. Let's put some real average numbers together. Look at just ten revolvers and rate them between 1 being the worst used condition to the number 10 being the unshot nib condition. Here it has to be 7 nib or 99% to 3 used.

The ONLY NIB firearms are sitting in Dealers Inventory

I was at a fairly large (500 gun) auction a couple years ago, and EVERY gun that had a box, (even if the gun had half the finish worn off) was NIB! I never trust what any auctioneer says.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

I agree there are a lot more trying to be passed off as NIB, but JUST IMO ONLY think there are more out there never used by collectors & heirs that just have not been discovered YET, or sitting in dusty warehouses, than we would think. When I came across a 1978 "NIB' Rem 40x Varminter last summer, I didn't believe it either until verified by 2 smiths & a check with the rem custom shop. The original guy that ordered it was a LEO & came down with Ca before he got it, the wife never sold it, when she passed the heirs sold it to me. All verified with original paperwork. So it IS POSSIBLE.

I think the best thing for me when I'm ready to pick up some new additions ,would be to post in the wanted to buy section and be patient.

I check the revolver for wear at the star lug on the rear of the cylinder, at the rear of the cylinder were the case hits the frame when the round is fired. If the bluing is 100% I inspect closely for hidden wear. I still under rate the condition at 99.999% because it's been owned so it's used.

My online dealer rates his guns lower than they really are. His online pictures show exactly what your buying.

Like I suggested to look at your LGS and report on how many s&w revolvers you see in 99% condition. Just pick ten guns to get an average you might be surprised.

I purchased a used, unfired, NIB, never cycled after the factory CZ 85DB in 9mm luger in the original case with paperwork for $300 in the used case at my LGS. The CZ 85 DB is the fully amberdexterious CZ 75. There isn't one mark on the gun. Look closer in the used gun case.
All of them aren't used or shot.

Maybe it's the middle aged to the older crowd that doesn't shoot that much.

Only had a few new (NIB) guns. My 625-4, 4014 and 29-5 were all NIB. Note "WERE".

I'd like to know where in North America you are so I can check out some of your LGS's. :-)

How did you remove the freckling? Gun Oil and Brass Wool? I have some light Freckling on my 28-2 that I'd like to take a shot at.

More than we would think........

Not so much today but after WWII through the 60-70s a lot of people would buy a gun and a box of ammo for the nightstand or dresser drawer and never fire it. At one point my dad had 6-7 colt pocket .25s that family members had brought into the Police Station (pre 68),they had found them in their Father/Grandfather's estate.........just to get rid of them. I still have one of them in the box. This was in an upper and upper middle class suburb of Pittsburgh. No place to shoot in 20-30 miles.

I've known several individuals who bought "new" guns for their collections with no intent of ever shooting them.

Was told about a Physician on the Hospital staff who (1960s to 90s) would buy every new model or dash S&W for his collection. A collector not a shooter.....part of his diversified portfolio ...........

Go over to the 1899-1957 sub forum...... you'll be amazed at the Registered Magnums you will see.....Keep in mind only 5000 were made 1935-40.



Heck 2 of my 4 S&W PC autos have never been fired outside the factory.

Sitting here now I can think of another half dozen I know are new unfired...... and

maybe another 6-10 that I would have to go look at again real close.......but are good 95%++ guns ( hard to distinguish those last few %points.......LOL)

Consider all the NIB guns to be 99% or excellent condition and you won't be disappointed. Even then, the seller has to be honest and knowledgable. NIB would require some serious convincing to get the extra money out of me, besides a working man doesn't need a museum piece.

You UNDER rate the Gun at 99.999%?

i recently purchased a model 681 of gunbroker that was advertised as new, old stock. by the powder marks on the cylinder its obviously been fired more that 3 times but not much more. i was happy to get it for $650 shipped but not what i would have called NIB.

I really don't know about anyone's collection but my own but I have 6 guns that I bought new that I have never fired. Bought them because they were a good deal and just never got around to shooting them. I've also got a number of others that have nowhere near a box of rounds shot out of them. Going on my own experience I think the number of NIB or like new could be higher than one might think.

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Hue 68 noli me tangere

I do have some completely new and never fired guns .

In the S&Ws I have a few . My best S&W is a completely NIB nickel Model 27-2 in its presentation case and it remains unfired . Sometime I think about just loading it up and maybe one day I will.

It is not so much the collection status. It just seems the longer it goes, the less you want to fire it . I have thought about just taking it with me when I go in the box too .

My 28-2 4 inch and my 17 No Dash have fired a good number of rounds but still look excellent in the 97-98% ranges . So telling 6 shots might be hard at times .

But as a group and with their boxes, and taking out the 3 or 5 I shoot the most , then I really think my S&Ws would go at 99% .

But I have a couple of new Winchester Super X Model 1 shotguns . One day a couple of years ago I just took one out of the box and put it together and went to the range and loaded it up and started shooting it . It is now my personal field use SX1 .

Why I didnt shoot it before I can't say . Nor exactly what made me start shooting it . They aren't rare, but they are hard to find new. I was at the LGS and looking at some shotguns and I just said to myself the SX1s I have are better than this and built to run hard so I am going to give it a run . I like it too .

It burns me at times about the Winchester pre-64 guns . You hear all of this collector this and collector that. Sure there are some collectors of these. But a true "collection" probably isn't looking for a field grade 270 Win. " If you shoot it it will ruin it for collectors " - - bah . If you have a Winchester that Elvis, or Wyatt, or Custer, or JFK, or Patton owned yes . But field grade 270s not so much. And besides that, these guys say Winchester would "never" do this and that . Thats wrong - Winchester did all kinds of things . And the finishes and options were all over the place . Winchester built those rifles to hunt and be carried and shot . There really is not anything that special about them . Now if it was John Olins Model 21 then the situation is changed .

But it seems that a lot of this is just used to justify pricing up a gun or to of course price down one .

They asked Mr. Porsche once how he felt that all these guys "collected" these cars as he was overlooking a field of concours Porsche cars. He replied it made him sad. He said " We built these cars to drive - . . . . . . . . . .

But maybe one day there will be even fewer NIBs still around. Like a particular 27-2 .

There is ANIB 100% guns but not NIB unless still owned by a dealer
NRA Rating system can be found in SCSW Section 1: Evaluating Condition
SCSW by Supica & Nahaus 2006
Ratings are
ANIB 100%
Exc Plus 98-99% Post 1945
Exc 98-99% (Post 1945)
Fine (antique)
Very good 85%
Good 75%
Fair 20-60%
Poor..unshootable

__________________
John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor

Yes ,I love when you see adds that a gun is NIB, with a turn line on the cylinder,..Well if it didnt come from the factory with a turn line, and dinged up cylinder stop notches, its not NIB, had that disagreement a few times,Explained that just because they havent been shot or shot much, but sat in a tool box getting, beat up and rusty can also mean used...not NIB.
Not that I was looking for ANIB gun cause I want to use it as a shooter, but dont want to pay a collectors price for a used gun.
But you see it all the time....And its your fault/ decision to buy it or not. Bob

Sometimes it DOES still happen though. This is a post I made a couple of years ago when a friend of mine mentioned that his great uncle had left him some guns 35 YEARS before and they had been sitting in a cabinet since then.

As I recall, there was a model 12, a model 36, a pre-model 19, a K-22 Masterpiece all unfired, new (almost new?) in their boxes. Still with the receipts from the sporting goods stores where his great uncle had bought them.

(Over and above, there were 2 NIB Colt SAAs from the 1920s which sold for about $20K each in an auction later, and a NIB Hi_Standard Military .22)

He kept the pre model 19 and the Hi Standard...and sold all the rest. All too high for my meager resources.

Here's the old link:

Information and/or values - pristine old revolvers

I have continually been amazed at the quality of nice pre-numbered guns out there. Many are in 99+% and some with boxes. I think the number (percentage) is small of the total sample, but it is not uncommon.

I bought a 38/44 Outdoorsman postwar and when I got it I instinctively opened it up to check it was "safe" and "empty" and then closed it up to continue inspecting it. It was then that I noticed it did not have a turn line and the gun had never been fired. The only mark on it is from where I opened it and slightly missed the notch on closing it. It is truly a 99% condition gun.

They are out there.

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SWCA 1646