617 yoke screw just broke in two

3strokes · Apr 9, 2013

A new 617-6 10-shot 6" barrel.
I just got some Wolff rebound springs.
I start taking the side plate off.
Start with yoke screw (the rightmost one with the little plunger.
No resistance starting to unscrew but the screw driver kept turning and turning (anti-clockwise) but the screw was not advancing (backing out). I turn the gun over and shake it, the top half of the screw falls out and a little very thin spring. The bottom half is sheared inside the hole and engaging the yoke.
I took pictures and emailed S&W. Hope they respond with a screw (or two if this is a known weakness).
Part of the screw has red coloring. Does S&W red loctite their yoke screws?

I have no idea as to what is left inside that hole and that's jutting into the yoke slot.
Hope I don't have to take it to a gunsmith.

Nightowl · Apr 9, 2013

I found some red locktite on a gun I opened up recently. As it was not a new gun, I thought a previous owner had put it there. Maybe not....

Looks like an easy out will be needed and a new screw. For me a new screw would be the easy part. If you were in the US, Smith would send a shipping label and it would go back to the factory at their expense. I don't know that you have that option.

scooter123 · Apr 9, 2013

Pull the sideplate off and you may get lucky and find there is enough screw above the surface to get a bite on it to remove the stub. If not, send that revolver back for warranty repair. All of the 10 shooters are late enough that they are covered by the lifetime warranty and IMO this is a warranty issue.

Tupperware · Apr 10, 2013

My 617's have red "something" on the threads. it's nowhere near as serious as the red Loctite that I use on other things.
The plunger is the part that's still engaged with your yoke slot. If you can get the plunger out you should have an easy time removing the remainder of the hollow screw with an EZ out.
I'm guessing S&W went to this style yoke screw as a cost saving measure in order to eliminate custom fitting the tips of regular screws. Yours is the first failure I've heard of.

3strokes · Apr 10, 2013

Nightowl said:
Looks like an easy out will be needed and a new screw. For me a new screw would be the easy part. If you were in the US, Smith would send a shipping label and it would go back to the factory at their expense. I don't know that you have that option.

No. Sending it back to the US is definitely NOT an option.
I have asked S&W to send me one (or two if it's a new weakness in that part) and if I can't clear it with needle-nose pliers or hemostats, it's off to the gunsmith. That is a PITA as I need to obtain special ATT (hateful acronym. Not only at the UN but in Canada it's an Authorization To Transport) for the trip to the gunsmith.

3strokes · Apr 10, 2013

scooter123 said:
Pull the sideplate off and you may get lucky and find there is enough screw above the surface to get a bite on it to remove the stub. If not, send that revolver back for warranty repair. All of the 10 shooters are late enough that they are covered by the lifetime warranty and IMO this is a warranty issue.

It would be an easier job for me to rewrite the UN ATT than to send a handgun back to the US and receive it back sometime before the year 2084 (Another Orwellian year).

It sure is a warranty issue. (I can't see if that yoke screw with the plunger was made in China or the US, but I received a S&W gun made in the USA)

3strokes · Apr 10, 2013

Tupperware said:
My 617's have red "something" on the threads. it's nowhere near as serious as the red Loctite that I use on other things.
The plunger is the part that's still engaged with your yoke slot. If you can get the plunger out you should have an easy time removing the remainder of the hollow screw with an EZ out.
I'm guessing S&W went to this style yoke screw as a cost saving measure in order to eliminate custom fitting the tips of regular screws. Yours is the first failure I've heard of.

Have to go and try to find an EZ out.

Would you happen to know off-hand what size EZ out I'd need?
I don't want to buy a gunsmith's set of 12 EZ outs just to find out if one of them will do the trick.

Awaiting a reply from S&W. Hope it doesn't take them 12 weeks (due to backlog of orders) to mail me a couple of screws.

Jayhawkhuntclub · Apr 10, 2013

No special tools need as far as I can see. Just finish taking off the side plate. Heat of the remainder of the screw. You don't need it super hot; just enough to loosen up the locktite. And take it out with some needlenose pliers or Vicegrips. Voila!

H Richard · Apr 10, 2013

With the hole already in the screw part, you could make an easy out by taking a nail, and filing the tip 4 flat sides (to form a square) on the tip. Keep sides at an angle tapering to the tip. Adjust the size to fit in the small hole in the screw. Tap in, and turn the screw out.

3strokes · Apr 10, 2013

Jayhawkhuntclub said:
No special tools need as far as I can see. Just finish taking off the side plate. Heat of the remainder of the screw. You don't need it super hot; just enough to loosen up the locktite. And take it out with some needlenose pliers or Vicegrips. Voila!

Thanks
I'll give that a try this evening at home.

And then wait x number of weeks for the S&W part.

BillyMagg · Apr 10, 2013

H Richard said:
With the hole already in the screw part, you could make an easy out by taking a nail, and filing the tip 4 flat sides (to form a square) on the tip. Keep sides at an angle tapering to the tip. Adjust the size to fit in the small hole in the screw. Tap in, and turn the screw out.

I hope you're right bossman, but my luck with broken itty bitty screws is get out the dynamite, course I am a farm-boy, that is a heart-ache for the OP, heat, but not too much heat?????

3strokes · Apr 10, 2013

BillyMagg said:
I hope you're right bossman, but my luck with broken itty bitty screws is get out the dynamite, course I am a farm-boy, that is a heart-ache for the OP, heat, but not too much heat?????

Guess I'll use a (hair) blow dryer...........
On medium setting? or try High Heat!!!
I guess a microwave is out of the question, too much dynamite.
Juss kiddin' (I once visited a farm.)

snubbiefan · Apr 10, 2013

Maybe use a left-hand drill bit. That has worked for me before. When you force-in the easy-out....they tend to press the "what's-left" out against the threads on stuff this small. I have had other side-plate screws to snap, but not a yoke retention screw. That simply SUX. It could not have happened in a worse place. I have had to take a Dremel with a very small bit and grind-off remains down to the threads in one spot....then dig them out with a dental pick. Since you can't send it home, you have all the makings of a ruined gun on your hands if you screw this up. I'd take it to a machinist, or a Smith.....surely you have somebody up there that can do this.

If the hole and threads are ruined, it would be possible to re-tap for a slightly over-sized screw. With the new yoke retention system (glass bead), you will have to fabricate a screw that will bottom-out just as the point reaches into the beveled stop-notch machined in the rod. It would not be nearly as bad if the old retention system was still in play....it was nothing but a screw.

Good luck!

rck281 · Apr 10, 2013

Jayhawkhuntclub said:
No special tools need as far as I can see. Just finish taking off the side plate. Heat of the remainder of the screw. You don't need it super hot; just enough to loosen up the locktite. And take it out with some needlenose pliers or Vicegrips. Voila!

Did you ever take off the side plate as suggested above? My experience with red locktite is that it takes some serious heat to break it loose. Some time ago I purchased a rifle that had the scope base screws put on with red locktite. I had to use a torch to get enought heat on the action and get the screws out. However, I would be very reluctant to use a torch on a handgun. Just my experience. I hope the hair dryer technique does the job.

I would check with the factory to see if there is a warranty station in Canada before I did anything.

3strokes · Apr 10, 2013

rck281 said:
Did you ever take off the side plate as suggested above? My experience with red locktite is that it takes some serious heat to break it loose. Some time ago I purchased a rifle that had the scope base screws put on with red locktite. I had to use a torch to get enought heat on the action and get the screws out. However, I would be very reluctant to use a torch on a handgun. Just my experience. I hope the hair dryer technique does the job.

I would check with the factory to see if there is a warranty station in Canada before I did anything.

I'm still at work. It's 13:04 where I am now. Won't get home before 1730 then I have to pick up my semis and head for the range for an ISSF Club Championship.... Not that I'm a good shot.

Probably over the weekend.
I'm also hoping to hear from S&W

On the other hand, I did find a S&W Warranty service in Canada (same Province too). They're ready to send me a screw ONLY if I succeed in clearing the remainder of the screw (and don't screw it up -pun unavoidable-). If I can't do it, I won't try to be a hero and then should send them the gun.

Therefore all hope is not lost (except that this gun is my most accurate one and these two weeks are also Club Championship Bullseye.) I guess I'll have to go with my Ruger Single-10.

Jayhawkhuntclub · Apr 10, 2013

3strokes said:
Thanks
I'll give that a try this evening at home.
And then wait x number of weeks for the S&W part.

Well brother, they say absence makes the heart grow fonder. Imagine how happy you'll be when she's back up and running.
Let us know how it works out. Unless of course my advice causes you to completely destroy your gun. But that rarely happens.

snubbiefan · Apr 10, 2013

SEND IT TO THE S&W WARRANTY STATION, even if it cost you a few bucks.

I've seen one model 649 get passed around at several gun shows. I know it's the same gun, because it has a #10 screw sticking in the hole where the yoke retention screw ought to be. The idiot that did it did not even have enough sense to make it flush with the frame......just tapped the hole and snugged the screw down against the yoke-rod. You have to prize the cylinder open on this POJ. Two or three different dealers have had the gun. The original seller was trying to pass it off as a scope-mount adaptation. He hooked somebody into taking it and it has not disappeared yet. Some people will (literally) buy anything.

3strokes · Apr 10, 2013

Jayhawkhuntclub said:
No special tools need as far as I can see. Just finish taking off the side plate. Heat of the remainder of the screw. You don't need it super hot; just enough to loosen up the locktite. And take it out with some needlenose pliers or Vicegrips. Voila!

Tried it. Needle-nose pliers and hemostat; didn't work.
It's taking a trip to the S&W Warranty Centre, in Canada, tomorrow.

scooter123 · Apr 11, 2013

Sorry I missed the part about your being in Canada. Nice country but your firearms laws are, to be polite, a MESS.

This is a 4mm thread and you WILL NOT find an EZ out this small. If you can't grab onto the remaining stub of the screw your only other option will be to have the remainder of the screw removed by EDM machining. I'm really hoping that all that is left in the hole is the tip of the plunger, if so you may be able to shake it out or may be able to get it free using a neodymium magnet. Note, this type of magnet is the strongest you can find and can be found at some hobby shops.

BTW, if you can get everything cleaned out of that hole you can take a standard 4mm screw and hand fit it to your yoke. Due to reports I've seen by some competition shooters these spring plunger yoke screws are prone to failing when Push to Release speed loaders are used. Basically, that can't take a lot of pounding on the yoke assembly. Replacing them with a solid hand fitted screw will set the clock back a bit with the advantage that the new plunger type screw uses a larger thread diameter than the old hand fitted screws.

rwsmith · Apr 11, 2013

If it makes you feel better........

3strokes said:
Tried it. Needle-nose pliers and hemostat; didn't work.
It's taking a trip to the S&W Warranty Centre, in Canada, tomorrow.

....it makes me feel better. I've been cringing at the last posts. I think it's great that the Pros are going to do it.

617 yoke screw just broke in two

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